The Off Topic Topic

[Caliga]

I have never heard of anyone who likes Springsteen regretting going to one of his concerts for what that's worth.

I've seen him three times and he never disappoints, except when he stops the concert in the middle to talk about political stuff.  I am mostly aligned with him politically, but I paid to hear him sing, not rant.

[Josquius]

Hearing explanations for the Eurovision mess leaking out.
Seems it was all around Israel. We know there was booing from the crowd for them and then we've footage of the Dutch contestant asking the Israeli contestant if she thought about the impact her presence was having on safety.
But then there's also tales that the Israeli press had been bullying the other contestants- we already know they were being pretty shitty about the Irish contestant who missed rehearsals. The outburst of the (autistic) Dutchman is beginning to make a bit more sense.

[Tamas]

Hearing explanations for the Eurovision mess leaking out.
Seems it was all around Israel. We know there was booing from the crowd for them and then we've footage of the Dutch contestant asking the Israeli contestant if she thought about the impact her presence was having on safety.
But then there's also tales that the Israeli press had been bullying the other contestants- we already know they were being pretty shitty about the Irish contestant who missed rehearsals. The outburst of the Dutchman is beginning to make a bit more sense.

So he was blaming the victim for her being threatened? IF he did that with somebody other than a Jew I don't think you'd be that much on the Dutch's side.

[Josquius]

Hearing explanations for the Eurovision mess leaking out.
Seems it was all around Israel. We know there was booing from the crowd for them and then we've footage of the Dutch contestant asking the Israeli contestant if she thought about the impact her presence was having on safety.
But then there's also tales that the Israeli press had been bullying the other contestants- we already know they were being pretty shitty about the Irish contestant who missed rehearsals. The outburst of the Dutchman is beginning to make a bit more sense.

So he was blaming the victim for her being threatened? IF he did that with somebody other than a Jew I don't think you'd be that much on the Dutch's side.

Come off it with the anti-semitism bollocks. It doesn't make sense in the slightest here.
I don't blame the Israeli contestant at all. I feel sorry for her being in the middle of it all.
The Israeli media however certainly seems to have been very shitty.

[Tamas]

Fine, I thought you were on the Dutch's guy side on this, sorry.

[Josquius]

Fine, I thought you were on the Dutch's guy side on this, sorry.

I am, but I don't see it as the Dutch vs. Israeli contestant.
Asking that question of her was uncalled for- but then he is mentally divergent which though not giving complete forgiveness does contextualise it.
She's just a young singer who has been given a big opportunity to sing on a top stage so really can't blame her for wanting to be there in the slightest. She did nothing wrong.

The unsafe situation he was referring to was bullying of all the contestants, not the anti-Israel protestors outside and the booing.

What eventually got him banned was his outburst at having a camera suddenly shoved in his face...which again if you've promised an autistic guy you wouldn't do this and then suddenly its there, then you kind of have to expect he'd be pissed off. Apparently the Israeli media on site had been doing this a lot and was behind the Irish contestant nearly dropping out.

Its painful, quite a microsm for other matters, that the English mainstream media is presenting this image that it was all some coordinated campaign against the Israeli contestant with her as the sole victim, when the whole thing seems to have been a shit show.

[Tamas]

Is there a proof somewhere of Israelis bullying the autistic Dutch guy into a rage?

[Sheilbh]

No and the alleged incident was towards a (Swedish) camerawoman working on the production.

The Israeli press and team were pretty dick-ish in their behaviour - based on the videos they were doing and releasing on social media.

From what I've read that's actually fact there's no link between Israel and Joost getting kicked out. It's brought up at its most kind as: they were badly behaved with no consequences. At its worst it's just a conspiracy that because of the press conference moment the Israelis got him kicked out. I'm not sure, personally, that Israel is in any way relevant at all.

[Josquius]

Is there a proof somewhere of Israelis bullying the autistic Dutch guy into a rage?

No solid irrefutable proof either way. And its not something I'm too concerned to look that deeply into.
But the comments from the Irish contestant (""So now that I am free I can talk about everything, right? KAN, the broadcaster, incited violence against me twice, three times," )  and other bits and bobs coming out do seem to suggest quite the mess back stage.
This isn't an authoritative source, someone who claims they were working there but are under an NDA, but it does line up with the snippets we're seeing surface.

https://www.boredpanda.com/joost-klein-eurovision-alleged-incident-explained/

[Tamas]

Is there a proof somewhere of Israelis bullying the autistic Dutch guy into a rage?

No solid irrefutable proof either way. And its not something I'm too concerned to look that deeply into.
But the comments from the Irish contestant (""So now that I am free I can talk about everything, right? KAN, the broadcaster, incited violence against me twice, three times," )  and other bits and bobs coming out do seem to suggest quite the mess back stage.
This isn't an authoritative source, someone who claims they were working there but are under an NDA, but it does line up with the snippets we're seeing surface.

https://www.boredpanda.com/joost-klein-eurovision-alleged-incident-explained/

Ok so the source is an alleged anonymus employee who used TikTok to share the info? I mean, seriously? You better hope CC won't read this.

Also the very impartial article refers to the "ongoing genocide in Palestine" as that's a self-explanatory term to what's happening.


What's the next proof? A Hamas press release blaming Israel for the Eurovision debacle?

[Josquius]

Is there a proof somewhere of Israelis bullying the autistic Dutch guy into a rage?

No solid irrefutable proof either way. And its not something I'm too concerned to look that deeply into.
But the comments from the Irish contestant (""So now that I am free I can talk about everything, right? KAN, the broadcaster, incited violence against me twice, three times," )  and other bits and bobs coming out do seem to suggest quite the mess back stage.
This isn't an authoritative source, someone who claims they were working there but are under an NDA, but it does line up with the snippets we're seeing surface.

https://www.boredpanda.com/joost-klein-eurovision-alleged-incident-explained/

Ok so the source is an alleged anonymus employee who used TikTok to share the info? I mean, seriously? You better hope CC won't read this.

Also the very impartial article refers to the "ongoing genocide in Palestine" as that's a self-explanatory term to what's happening.


What's the next proof? A Hamas press release blaming Israel for the Eurovision debacle?

I said it wasn't exactly the most authoritive. Don't criticise me for this. If you've something more reliable then do share.

[Tamas]

What I am criticising you for, I guess, is not dismissing it out of hand based on the extremely weak legs the accusation  is standing on. It's an article made out of an anomymus TikTok message.

[Josquius]

What I am criticising you for, I guess, is not dismissing it out of hand based on the extremely weak legs the accusation  is standing on. It's an article made out of an anomymus TikTok message.

A weakly sourced but not at all wacky, completely believable story about a pretty unimportant recent event of mild interest and which pieces together the parts of the mess that we've seen surface in numerous places.

There's definitely more to this than Dutchman randomly decides to attack camerawoman- annoyingly with the way the initial banning was phrased and it being a woman on the receiving end, many people I know jumped to the assumption there was something sexual involved.

I'm inclined to shrug and largely believe the article as the version of events for now pending any actual developments- next year and what different national broadcasters say, it seems the Dutch have decided not to be involved with rumblings from others, will be what really develops it.

It doesn't impact my life in anyway so hey ho. I found it mildly interesting to see the story pieced together.

[Tamas]

So the Jews being conniving assholes to troll the critical performers into oblivion which culminated in two third-parties having an incident is more likely than the Dutch performer simply being a violent asshat?

[Josquius]

So the Jews being conniving assholes to troll the critical performers into oblivion which culminated in two third-parties having an incident is more likely than the Dutch performer simply being a violent asshat?

Why do you keep coming back to Jews?
It is possible to hate someone being a dick whilst that person is Jewish, black, gay, or whatever, without it being related to any thoughts about that group.

All evidence does suggest it was more than the Dutch guy who was upset. He's just the one who snapped.