The Off Topic Topic

[Legbiter]

Oscar Wilde had something to say about this : "To lose one diocese , Archbishop, may be regarded as a misfortune; to lose two looks like carelessness."

That would be Lady Bracknell upbraiding the Archbishop of Trondheim.

It's apparently not true that no one ever caught on. 50 years later in 1520 an archbishop of Trondheim did notice one bishop missing and made enquiries. I'd have thought somebody would have done that a bit sooner. You'd realize when doing headcount that one bishop was missing from a synod or something but no.  

And I discovered while googling that there's a restaurant in Lerwick called The Dowry today. 

[Admiral Yi]

You always react whenever there is any criticism of Macron, even valid; that's quite close to worshipping him, at the very leadt.

The only person who criticizes Macron on Languish is you.

[Syt]

Well, this is one heck of a headline. Kudos, Daily Wail.

[Josquius]

From the multiple basic misconceptions of the French language you used and the fact you complain all the time about its perceive difficulty, it's easy to know it's not that great as in worse than usual for Anglos.

What misconceptions?

French is the hardest language I've ever learned. The blurred cadence and emphasis on pronunciation lines up perfectly against how my brain works.

Neither did I claim it. No argument about the later, see above.

You might want to read about how insults work.
"I'm bad at French"
"You're shit at French"
"....yes?"

The Anglos we got here do better, so no top of the pile for you, sorry.

This makes no sense. I'm not as good at French as Anglos living in France so I'm not better than 75% of Anglos, most of whom can't piece together a single sentence?
Even if I was someone who was into French and spoke it well that would probably still be the case.

He is already there. He will really have to pull out something special to have a shot at not being the worst president ever. Not even Hollande can save him this time.
See his record low rates of approval and informed opinions.

The guy entered politics to fight the rise of the far-right yet brought them record levels, nearly killing the mainstream left-wing and right-wing parties.
So far, worst president ever. Economics, his theoretical forte is not that much better, with record debt, not all linked to Covid. Hollande-like level. He was minister of Finance for him, remember. He ended up terminating the need for Euroscart inputs on TV. Yay!

I mean, France is the land of Napoleon III.... the economy being a bit shit has to come some way behind what he cooked up.
I'm having trouble seeing much in the way of huge negatives or huge positives for Macron. Meh all round. Though of course the current leader is always the worst ever, so there's that.
 

You always react whenever there is any criticism of Macron, even valid; that's quite close to worshipping him, at the very leadt. Which does not make sense since he is a Thatcher fanboi, a politician you hate.
The incoherence is on your side.
Had you not strong views or interest in Jupiter, you would not react the way you do.

I can only recall ever commenting on him with the political compass thing, where my comments were more a rant about the compass than anything to do with him, and the election, where my support was less pro-Macro and more anti-fascist even if it means holding your nose and voting liberal.
As said this seems to be on your side. You're so dug into hating Macron that anything less than agreeing he is the devil equates to worship.

Moving goal posts again? That French compass was too Franco-centric to be American.

What?
You're making no sense here. No goal posts have been moved. The political compass is an American invention. It was invented by a libertarian activist. I've seen zero evidence it was invented separately in France. The point remains as it ever was.

[Duque de Bragança]

What misconceptions?

French is the hardest language I've ever learned. The blurred cadence and emphasis on pronunciation lines up perfectly against how my brain works.

The blurred cadence and emphasis on pronunciation, for instance.
As for hard languages to learn for Anglos in general, French is nowhere near the hard ones.

A map for Yanks, so Brits should perform even better.

You might want to read about how insults work.
"I'm bad at French"
"You're shit at French"
"....yes?"

You might want to understand what you read.

This makes no sense. I'm not as good at French as Anglos living in France so I'm not better than 75% of Anglos, most of whom can't piece together a single sentence?
Even if I was someone who was into French and spoke it well that would probably still be the case.

Not even as good as those who come here for a while, or even just a short visit, not necessarily for living. Hopelessly prejudiced, and so on.

I mean, France is the land of Napoleon III.... the economy being a bit shit has to come some way behind what he cooked up.

Napoleon III did not have an economy being shit, quite the opposite. It improved quite a lot under him. An extremely poor foreign policy decision resulting in a disastrous war tarnished his legacy but he was far from the worst. He even had a social side by being in favour of the theses of an early socialist, Saint-Simon.
OTOH, Victor Hugo did not like him.

I'm having trouble seeing much in the way of huge negatives or huge positives for Macron. Meh all round. Though of course the current leader is always the worst ever, so there's that.

There is some truth to the current leader being the worst since the previous one, from Giscard or Mitterrand on, but Macron managed still managed to beat new negative records.
As for positives, in foreign policy only. The support to Greece during a crisis with Turkey comes to mind. Nearly unanimously approved. Maybe the far left did not approve it (to be confirmed), but at least they kept quiet about it.
 Beyond that... Well, he eventually read the Quai d'Orsay's notes prepared for him over Ukraine.

I can only recall ever commenting on him with the political compass thing, where my comments were more a rant about the compass than anything to do with him, and the election, where my support was less pro-Macro and more anti-fascist even if it means holding your nose and voting liberal.
As said this seems to be on your side. You're so dug into hating Macron that anything less than agreeing he is the devil equates to worship.

This political compass happened to be telling the truth, with Macron's contradictory statements being worse than I suspected. I discovered some gaffes of his, thinking previously even Macron would not descend to such depths.

What?
You're making no sense here. No goal posts have been moved. The political compass is an American invention. It was invented by a libertarian activist. I've seen zero evidence it was invented separately in France. The point remains as it ever was.

You seem to suck at English (Maggie's fault? ) as well as French,not making sense. I did not say THE political compass was a French invention, only the one on Macron was, too Franco-centric.
Hence your attempt at moving goal posts by claiming I said the political compass was invented in France.

[Tamas]

I mean, when it comes to pronounciation French does look worse but let's not pretend that in English the written sequence of letters have anything more to do with the word pronounced than a mediocre/weak hint.

[Duque de Bragança]

English uses indeed a lot of medieval Norman French spellings, reformed or changed a long time ago in French.

Etymological or pseudo-etymology orthography does not help, of course (the y in sylvestre or lacrymogène).

[Josquius]

The blurred cadence and emphasis on pronunciation, for instance.

This is a well known feature of French. Just google it. Lots of complaints about the words blurring and difficult pronunciation.
Incidentally TIL: The technical term for the blurring is catenation.

As for hard languages to learn for Anglos in general, French is nowhere near the hard ones.

A map for Yanks, so Brits should perform even better.

Yes, I've addressed before this is warped and it heavily depends on individuals.

Not even as good as those who come here for a while, or even just a short visit, not necessarily for living. Hopelessly prejudiced, and so on.

This would still put me towards the top. Le chat est sur la table is above most's level. In the UK my parents generation never learned any languages (unless you went to grammar school) and these days French is being pushed out in favour of Spanish at schools so... 
And again its curious you claim to know my French level... I guess given you also claim I worship Macron it fits. I'll have you know I've gotten pretty good at reading the works of Thierry Courtin lately.

You seem to suck at English (Maggie's fault? ) as well as French,not making sense. I did not say THE political compass was a French invention, only the one on Macron was, too Franco-centric.
Hence your attempt at moving goal posts by claiming I said the political compass was invented in France.

We were talking about the political compass as a concept. Not the specific pictures of Macron all over it. You're the one shifting goal posts here.

[Tamas]

BTW one of my early favourites here in England was the train stop "Worcester Park". From the auto-announcer I have learned this is pronounced "Vosta Paak"

[Duque de Bragança]

This is a well known feature of French. Just google it. Lots of complaints about the words blurring and difficult pronunciation.
Incidentally TIL: The technical term for the blurring is catenation.

Not articulating is not a feature of French. It may be a feature of some speakers, however. Macron articulates but does have a lisp, mostly corrected in French these days.

If you are speaking of liaisons, which is another concept, it's not compulsory and actually seen as helpful by lots of foreigners since otherwise silent letters are pronounced. The problem is more linked to the "h aspiré" for words of Germanic origin mostly, where a stop has to be made.

So again, well-known only to you. You are the first one to complain about it. Difficult pronunciation is too vague and relative. Relative to what? What phonemes? Vowels? Nasals?

Yes, I've addressed before this is warped and it heavily depends on individuals.

Hardly addressed in a meaningful way.
And their prejudices about the relevant language, such as you and the French.

This would still put me towards the top. Le chat est sur la table is above most's level. In the UK my parents generation never learned any languages (unless you went to grammar school) and these days French is being pushed out in favour of Spanish at schools so... 
And again its curious you claim to know my French level... I guess given you also claim I worship Macron it fits. I'll have you know I've gotten pretty good at reading the works of Thierry Courtin lately.

In translation?
They still learned English however. Sometimes I doubt you have.
Apples and oranges, comparing their situation to yours.

Weak standards. As for Spanish instead of French, I am sure we can find equally prejudiced little Englanders, against Castilian/Spanish. YfGiven the speedy speech of some Hispanophones (Mexicans speak faster than Castilians/Spaniards) and some peculiar sounds (multiple trilled r) I am sure they will complain about the pronunciation.
Spelling should be a bit easier, though the lack of distinction between b and v will be a killer for some. The silent h, as well (same as French).

What about German?  Should be fun too, for the Anglo-Saxons to rediscover their true roots.

We were talking about the political compass as a concept. Not the specific pictures of Macron all over it. You're the one shifting goal posts here.

That's what you claim, it's just false. You are willfully obtuse, again since you cannot prove it. Where's the incriminating quote, by the way if I said so? I can't find it. The ones I find only show you using a libertarian strawman over a French idiom, mixing up substance and form. 

By the way, compass = boussole in French, not compas. At best, you probably willfully misunderstood a linguistic reference.


Remember, I mentioned the quotes, not so much the pictures. The pictures were arranged for comical effect such as the fez-wearing Macron (cultural appropriation?  ) they do no match necessarily the precise circumstances when Macron uttered his infamous quotes.

OTOH, you mentioned the not-so-good way English was taught in the UK. That would explain your shortcomings at French, given the English is not optimal to begin with. Harder to learn another language if one's native tongue is not at reference level.

[Duque de Bragança]

BTW one of my early favourites here in England was the train stop "Worcester Park". From the auto-announcer I have learned this is pronounced "Vosta Paak"

That's the power of stress for you. 

[Jacob]

You always react whenever there is any criticism of Macron, even valid; that's quite close to worshipping him, at the very leadt.

The only person who criticizes Macron on Languish is you.

I'd go so far as to say that the only person on languish who has any real opinion on Macron is Duque... and maybe Sheilbh, a little bit.

[Duque de Bragança]

You always react whenever there is any criticism of Macron, even valid; that's quite close to worshipping him, at the very leadt.

The only person who criticizes Macron on Languish is you.

I'd go so far as to say that the only person on languish who has any real opinion on Macron is Duque... and maybe Sheilbh, a little bit.

Plus Valmy, i.e the usual francophile suspects. 

PS: Zoupa also, of course.

[Sheilbh]

I'd go so far as to say that the only person on languish who has any real opinion on Macron is Duque... and maybe Sheilbh, a little bit.

I've had many opinions on Macron and still do - most of them contradictory and pretty irreconcilable

Although my strongest one is not specific to Macron but that I think in terms of ambient opinion he's benefits from vibes politics - as with Sturgeon, Merkel, Obama, Ardern, maybe Trudeau, even Sunak etc - and that we are far too reliant on reading/coding someone for working out who the "adult in the room" is. Until we fix that I think we're in trouble.

[garbon]

BTW one of my early favourites here in England was the train stop "Worcester Park". From the auto-announcer I have learned this is pronounced "Vosta Paak"

Marylebone as well as Southwark are my goto examples.