The Off Topic Topic

[The Larch]

The King of Spain also has the "King of Jerusalem" amongst its titles, IIRC.

[Sheilbh]

As this is a lighter anecdote but related to titles - it doesn't seem appropriate in the main covid thread. But Boris Johnson's situation has prompted a Scots journalist to recall their FOIA around Donald Dewar's ill-health.

Donald Dewar (Lab) was the first First Minister of Scotland, who had serious health issues and sadly died in office. But while he was getting treated he would handover power to his Deputy First Minister Jim Wallace (LD).

So a Scottish paper submitted a FOIA request for details of how all this worked and they were expecting to uncover all sorts of planning and transition documents, you know the sort of details of how the state functions - you know, when would he get security briefings etc. Apparently what they got was reams and reams of emails by civil servants over what to call Jim Wallace in statements because, in Scotland like in the UK there is only one FM/PM at a time. The civil servants after literally hundreds of emails settled on the "Deputy First Minister temporarily discharging the duties of the First Minister" - which didn't catch on

[Oexmelin]

The King of Spain also has the "King of Jerusalem" amongst its titles, IIRC.

Yes. They are both tied to the Kingdom of Naples, when Charles of Anjou bought the title from inheritors of Crusader Kings. Eventually René d'Anjou, king of Naples, became duke of Lorraine. When Alfonso V of Aragon claimed the throne of Naples, he also claimed the title of king of Jerusalem as part of the crown of Naples.

So, the Spanish kings claim it as part of the inheritance of Naples, and the current Habsburg (descendent of Francis of Lorraine) as the inheritance of the Anjou family.

[The Larch]

The King of Spain also has the "King of Jerusalem" amongst its titles, IIRC.

Yes. They are both tied to the Kingdom of Naples, when Charles of Anjou bought the title from inheritors of Crusader Kings. Eventually René d'Anjou, king of Naples, became duke of Lorraine. When Alfonso V of Aragon claimed the throne of Naples, he also claimed the title of king of Jerusalem as part of the crown of Naples.

So, the Spanish kings claim it as part of the inheritance of Naples, and the current Habsburg (descendent of Francis of Lorraine) as the inheritance of the Anjou family.

In fact from that side of the dynastic tree the King of Spain also claims, through the Crown of Aragón, the crowns of the Kingdom of the Two Sicilies, Sardinia and Corsica, the crusader era Kingdoms of Jerusalem and Cyprus, as well as the duchies of Athens and Neopatria.

In the official list there's also an "etc.", which according to wiki includes the following lesser titles:

Other titles maintained, but usually abbreviated with "etc."
Because of the large number of titles associated with the Spanish Crown, only the most important were written, finishing the list with "etc." or "&c.", referring to minor or obsolete titles. These titles are:

Duke of Gelderland, of Styria, of Carniola, of Carinthia, and of Württemberg;
Landgrave of Alsace;
Prince of Swabia;
Palatine Count of Burgundy;
Count of Artois, of Hainaut, of Namur, of Gorizia, of Haut-Rhin, and of Kyburg;
Marquis of Oristano, and of Goceano;
Margrave of the Holy Roman Empire, and of Burgau;
Lord of Salins, of Mechelen, of the Slovenian March, of Pordenone, and of Tripoli.

[Josquius]

Huh, still keeping the holy roman empire title....

[celedhring]

They also bought the imperial title of the Bizantine Empire in the XVIth century IIRC, but they don't use that one.

[Valmy]

They also bought the imperial title of the Bizantine Empire in the XVIth century IIRC, but they don't use that one.

Well they actually never paid Andreas Palaiologos for it, IIRC, so good on them for not using it.

[The Larch]

They also bought the imperial title of the Bizantine Empire in the XVIth century IIRC, but they don't use that one.

Well they actually never paid Andreas Palaiologos for it, IIRC, so good on them for not using it.

And he had also sold it already earlier to the King of France as well, IIRC. 

[Valmy]

They also bought the imperial title of the Bizantine Empire in the XVIth century IIRC, but they don't use that one.

Well they actually never paid Andreas Palaiologos for it, IIRC, so good on them for not using it.

And he had also sold it already earlier to the King of France as well, IIRC. 

Who also did not pay him

Poor Andreas.

[Legbiter]

When Constantinople is retaken a new dynasty will have to be set up I guess. Not many Palaiologoi running around these days.

[Valmy]

When Constantinople is retaken a new dynasty will have to be set up I guess. Not many Palaiologoi running around these days.

Last chance of that ever happening died when the allies didn't let Greece take a shot at it at the end of WWI.

[The Larch]

When Constantinople is retaken a new dynasty will have to be set up I guess. Not many Palaiologoi running around these days.

It's not as if the Byzantines themselves ever had any problem creating new ruling houses whenever the situation arose.

[The Brain]

The Jaronoi would make sense.

[MadImmortalMan]

When Constantinople is retaken a new dynasty will have to be set up I guess. Not many Palaiologoi running around these days.

It's not as if the Byzantines themselves ever had any problem creating new ruling houses whenever the situation arose.

I saw a series of youtube videos about who would be the legitimate emperor today. I think I was convinced that from a legal standpoint it's Felipe Juan Pablo Alfonso de Todos los Santos de Borbón y de Grecia. Or maybe it was his dad when those videos were made. 

[Valmy]

When Constantinople is retaken a new dynasty will have to be set up I guess. Not many Palaiologoi running around these days.

It's not as if the Byzantines themselves ever had any problem creating new ruling houses whenever the situation arose.

It was what God wanted