Massacre at historic African American Church in Charleston

[jimmy olsen]

Social media does something good? 

http://talkingpointsmemo.com/edblog/a-view-from-charleston

ByJosh MarshallPublishedJune 24, 2015, 11:17 AM EDT  11311   views   

TPM Reader CS gives us a view from Charleston and why he thinks the damn broke on the preservation of Confederate symbols. I'm particularly interested in the second catalyst he notes ...

As a Charleston resident, I've noticed that there seem to be two main catalysts driving the removal of the flag—at least here in South Carolina.

First and foremost, a member of the South Carolina Senate was murdered. Not just any member, but a very highly respected and very well liked member. I have been pleasantly surprised by the number of Republican Senators who have come forward to release very personal statements about Sen. Pinckney's death, especially among the Lowcountry delegation. The statements made about him strike me as more than just the generic nice things one is supposed to say.

Secondly, I credit social media. Within a few days, nearly everyone began to associate the Confederate flag with the images of Dylann Roof either waving it or posing with it on his car's license plate. It created enough pressure to make Nikki Haley and Lindsey Graham both change their minds and call for the flag to come down. I also think that the SC Republicans are savvy enough to not want to be responsible for having every single GOP candidate forced to go on record about their respective positions on the flag. They know that's very much a no-win situation for the party.

(Slight digression - Tim Scott was initially going to wait until after the funerals to release his statement. That makes me think he was originally going to support keeping it where it is. Incidentally, his nickname by many African-Americans in this state is "Uncle Tim.")

But perhaps the most ironic and gratifying takeaway from this tragic situation is that Dylan Roof is pretty much singlehandedly responsible for the fall of the Confederate Flag.

[Valmy]

The former particularly is well-known as a symbol of the CSA.

An archaic old symbol. A historical artifact. Not something co-opted by the redemption segregation state governments and the KKK.

[Valmy]

Why is that funny?

Cause, you know, black people aren't that bright.

Well that's an opinion but I don't think that is what Ide was getting at.

[Razgovory]

Why is that funny?

Cause, you know, black people aren't that bright.

Well that's an opinion but I don't think that is what Ide was getting at.

Not Ide...

[Razgovory]

Social media does something good? 

http://talkingpointsmemo.com/edblog/a-view-from-charleston

ByJosh MarshallPublishedJune 24, 2015, 11:17 AM EDT  11311   views   

TPM Reader CS gives us a view from Charleston and why he thinks the damn broke on the preservation of Confederate symbols. I'm particularly interested in the second catalyst he notes ...

As a Charleston resident, I've noticed that there seem to be two main catalysts driving the removal of the flag—at least here in South Carolina.

First and foremost, a member of the South Carolina Senate was murdered. Not just any member, but a very highly respected and very well liked member. I have been pleasantly surprised by the number of Republican Senators who have come forward to release very personal statements about Sen. Pinckney's death, especially among the Lowcountry delegation. The statements made about him strike me as more than just the generic nice things one is supposed to say.

Secondly, I credit social media. Within a few days, nearly everyone began to associate the Confederate flag with the images of Dylann Roof either waving it or posing with it on his car's license plate. It created enough pressure to make Nikki Haley and Lindsey Graham both change their minds and call for the flag to come down. I also think that the SC Republicans are savvy enough to not want to be responsible for having every single GOP candidate forced to go on record about their respective positions on the flag. They know that's very much a no-win situation for the party.

(Slight digression - Tim Scott was initially going to wait until after the funerals to release his statement. That makes me think he was originally going to support keeping it where it is. Incidentally, his nickname by many African-Americans in this state is "Uncle Tim.")

But perhaps the most ironic and gratifying takeaway from this tragic situation is that Dylan Roof is pretty much singlehandedly responsible for the fall of the Confederate Flag.

If I was a cynical person I would suggest that quite a few conservatives want to get ahead of this and create as much distance as possible between what is apolitically motivated assassination and certain sentiments and organizations that the attacker claims inspired him and have given money to high ranking conservative leaders in the past.  Such a cynical person wouldn't be surprised if people who privately shared some of these sentiments, such as about the Trayvon Martin case, might suggest that the motives for this attack were more personal then political.

[derspiess]

Not Ide...

Do you honestly think that is what I was getting at?  Don't be that way, man.

[viper37]

Reminds me of the folks living in Swastika, Ontario (named in 1908). They have resisted all efforts to change the name of their town. 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Swastika,_Ontario

Allegedly, the inhabitants sold match-boxes with the name of their town on it, and the slogan "To Hell With Hitler, We Had It First!" 

Difference being, I think, that no-one thinks any of 'em are secretly Nazi sympathizers - unlike confederate flag-users, at least some of whom are clearly racists.

We've had a similar debate that no politician wants to touch. 
In Gatineau (right in front of Ottawa), there are two streets named for Nazi sympathizers&collaborators who each won a Noble Prize in their science.  They went to a referendum and the people who wanted the name change lost.
Streets Philipp-Lenard and Alexis-Carrel

[Razgovory]

Not Ide...

Do you honestly think that is what I was getting at?  Don't be that way, man.

Honestly?  No.  Despite what Seedy said, I wouldn't have identified you as racist.  It did look bad though.

[Valmy]

Well I think that is a little different. That would be like removing the name of any Confederate or Confederate sympathizer from any street or building in South Carolina which would basically mean removing 90% of names from everything. Besides those guys are being honored for things unrelated to their political activities.

[Valmy]

Honestly?  No.  Despite what Seedy said, I wouldn't have identified you as racist.  It did look bad though.

I didn't think he meant black people specifically. But everybody who is not a history nerd. Being a history nerd I have no idea the percentage of people who would identify the Stars and Bars as a Confederate Flag.

[Malthus]

Reminds me of the folks living in Swastika, Ontario (named in 1908). They have resisted all efforts to change the name of their town. 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Swastika,_Ontario

Allegedly, the inhabitants sold match-boxes with the name of their town on it, and the slogan "To Hell With Hitler, We Had It First!" 

Difference being, I think, that no-one thinks any of 'em are secretly Nazi sympathizers - unlike confederate flag-users, at least some of whom are clearly racists.

We've had a similar debate that no politician wants to touch. 
In Gatineau (right in front of Ottawa), there are two streets named for Nazi sympathizers&collaborators who each won a Noble Prize in their science.  They went to a referendum and the people who wanted the name change lost.
Streets Philipp-Lenard and Alexis-Carrel

Well, for the street names, I'm guessing that not one in a thousand people would know who these guys were or that they were Nazis or collaborators.  With "Swastika", it's a bit more in-your-face.

Also, my understanding that they were simply part of a large number of streets named after Nobel winners - part of a set as it were.

[derspiess]

Honestly?  No.  Despite what Seedy said, I wouldn't have identified you as racist.  It did look bad though.

So you felt compelled to make a cheap shot racism accusation.  Nice.

[Razgovory]

Honestly?  No.  Despite what Seedy said, I wouldn't have identified you as racist.  It did look bad though.

So you felt compelled to make a cheap shot racism accusation.  Nice.

You take cheap shots like a miserly bar fly.

[derspiess]

You take cheap shots like a miserly bar fly.

Cute.  But I can't recall the last time I took a cheap shot on anyone here.

[Razgovory]

Fine.  I apologize.