Massacre at historic African American Church in Charleston

[Berkut]

The assumption here seems to be that since it was much more prevalent it wasn't really about racism.

There was something else much more prevalent in the South at that time as well - segregation.

I suggest that it being more prevalent is not evidence that the flag is not about racism, but rather exactly the opposite.

"What the flag is about", like with any flag, is very much in the eye of the beholder.

Of course. And a lot of the people beholding the confederate flag consider it be about racism.

Enough that it's utility outside that context is rather suspect.

I know that kind of sucks, just like for people who think Swastika's are all about buddha. Sorry.

The problem is that those who think it is very much about racism and want it to be about that, are happy to make the exact same argument you are to justify it.

And those who think it is about racism from the standpoint of the target of that racism deserve to have their feelings considered. And given the hsiotry there, I think their views ought to trump those who think it is all about their legitimate southern heritage when it comes to state sponsored displays of a symbol that is routinely associated with slavery and racism.

If there was an argument between Germans and Jews about what the Nazi flag really represents, I think the Jews should get the final word when it comes to how the state should view it.

Some people see the US flag as representative of slavery, Native American genocide, and imperialism. Some don't.

Not enough people consider it such to make it an issue though.

Clearly racist groups have always used the confederate flag in a racist context. But at the same time it has also been used as a symbol of regional pride and heritage not unlike a scottish or welsh flag.

If Scotland or Wales had a unique history of slavery and racism and a particular flag the represented that part of their history uniquely, I think a legitimate argument could and would be made that some other choice ought to be considered when it is time to recognize that part of their history that is not about slavery and racism.

[Valmy]

Only those concerned with sheep rights would be offended by the flag of Wales.

[MadBurgerMaker]

Except now like this:



Charming. Obama best beware.

Oh yeah, I've seen those.    So lame.

[derspiess]

I almost wish the shitheads would go back to the racist flags and get rid of the dumbass "truck nuts" though like I saw this morning on the way to work.  I still don't understand why a person would want a nutsack hanging off their truck like that. 

Yep.

[lustindarkness]

Lusti would seize Mobile aboard his flagship 'Bo Jackson'

I would. But first I will partially park my FJ on the hood of a certain black Challenger.

[Ideologue]

I still don't see why they won't switch gears and use the actual Stars & Bars or Bonnie Blue flag.  People who are offended by the battle flag would have no clue what they mean.

[Valmy]

Why is that funny?

[Ideologue]

The former particularly is well-known as a symbol of the CSA.

Admittedly, the Bonnie blue would be easily mistaken as a Somali flag.

[derspiess]

The former particularly is well-known as a symbol of the CSA.

Well-known to you and most of us.  But I doubt it's that well-known to most other people.

[Ideologue]

Accepting that as true, even then I suspect it'd become well-known soon enough.

[Razgovory]

Why is that funny?

Cause, you know, black people aren't that bright.

[derspiess]

Why is that funny?

Cause, you know, black people aren't that bright.

HI SEEDY

[derspiess]

Accepting that as true, even then I suspect it'd become well-known soon enough.

Not sure about that.  I mean, they were able to slide in a slightly modified version of the Stars & Bars as the new Georgia state flag.  I haven't heard any objections to that.

[Malthus]

The assumption here seems to be that since it was much more prevalent it wasn't really about racism.

There was something else much more prevalent in the South at that time as well - segregation.

I suggest that it being more prevalent is not evidence that the flag is not about racism, but rather exactly the opposite.

"What the flag is about", like with any flag, is very much in the eye of the beholder.

Of course. And a lot of the people beholding the confederate flag consider it be about racism.

Enough that it's utility outside that context is rather suspect.

I know that kind of sucks, just like for people who think Swastika's are all about buddha. Sorry.

The problem is that those who think it is very much about racism and want it to be about that, are happy to make the exact same argument you are to justify it.

And those who think it is about racism from the standpoint of the target of that racism deserve to have their feelings considered. And given the hsiotry there, I think their views ought to trump those who think it is all about their legitimate southern heritage when it comes to state sponsored displays of a symbol that is routinely associated with slavery and racism.

If there was an argument between Germans and Jews about what the Nazi flag really represents, I think the Jews should get the final word when it comes to how the state should view it.

Some people see the US flag as representative of slavery, Native American genocide, and imperialism. Some don't.

Not enough people consider it such to make it an issue though.

Clearly racist groups have always used the confederate flag in a racist context. But at the same time it has also been used as a symbol of regional pride and heritage not unlike a scottish or welsh flag.

If Scotland or Wales had a unique history of slavery and racism and a particular flag the represented that part of their history uniquely, I think a legitimate argument could and would be made that some other choice ought to be considered when it is time to recognize that part of their history that is not about slavery and racism.

Reminds me of the folks living in Swastika, Ontario (named in 1908). They have resisted all efforts to change the name of their town. 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Swastika,_Ontario

Allegedly, the inhabitants sold match-boxes with the name of their town on it, and the slogan "To Hell With Hitler, We Had It First!" 

Difference being, I think, that no-one thinks any of 'em are secretly Nazi sympathizers - unlike confederate flag-users, at least some of whom are clearly racists.

[Ed Anger]

Lusti would seize Mobile aboard his flagship 'Bo Jackson'

I would. But first I will partially park my FJ on the hood of a certain black Challenger.

MAH HEMI