EU Immigration Crisis Megathread

[Barrister]

BTW I noticed there is some kind of political debate going on in Canada regarding accepting 25 000 Syrian refugees.

It is noble, but also kind of cute: that's like 5 days worth of intake for Europe, and it is a big deal over there.

True, but remember we're volunteering to take them.  They didn't just show up here one day.

[Zanza]

BTW I noticed there is some kind of political debate going on in Canada regarding accepting 25 000 Syrian refugees.

It is noble, but also kind of cute: that's like 5 days worth of intake for Europe, and it is a big deal over there.

True, but remember we're volunteering to take them.  They didn't just show up here one day.

So if they had ocean-worthy boats or would somehow get on a plane without a visa, you would take more? I guess we can arrange that. 

[Duque de Bragança]

I've certainly read about doctors and engineers being amongst those coming.
In fact the migrants tend to be from the richer segments of society- they can afford to pay the traffickers.

If you still believe that, don't worry for the proles, traffickers also have low cost pricing.

Migrants' risk grows with Greece bad weather discounts
By Gavin Lee

"Go now and it's 850 dollars, and your kids can go for free, wait until tomorrow and it's double."
A Syrian nurse, Nancy Ahmed, recounts the conversation she had with Turkish smugglers in Izmir, as she chose to risk setting off on a rubber boat to Greece.
"They offered a discount because the seas were rough and it was raining. It's riskier, but we were told we'd be okay," she says.

As winter draws in conditions for those attempting the crossing get more treacherous
Nancy, her 11-year-old twin boys and her 70-year-old mother travelled along with 40 others in one of seven boats that set out early in the morning last Friday.
She says the dinghy nearly overturned three times, and survived "out of luck and the skill of the Iraqi driver".
The driver was another migrant, designated to steer by the smuggling gang. He had spent an hour being taught basic seacraft.
The boat was picked up by the Greek coastguard and taken to the island of Samos.
Another boat that set off an hour after Nancy's faced even worse conditions. Thunderstorms and rain in the Aegean Sea caused the boat to capsize - 13 people drowned.

In Samos last week, I met a grief-stricken Syrian man. He had been rescued by another migrant boat, but his wife and sons were missing, presumed drowned.
He told aid workers he had taken advantage of a "discount" being offered by smugglers.
The United Nations refugee agency, UNHCR, says it has received many migrant reports of smugglers offering to charge less for people willing to travel in turbulent conditions.

These people made it safely to Lesbos on Friday - despite a heavily listing boat
For those who arrive safely on Greek soil the relief can be overwhelming
The UNHCR spokesman in Greece, Ron Redmond, believes the discount has contributed to the sharp rise in drownings in recent days.
"In Lesbos at the moment we're hearing from migrants that they're being offered up to 50% discounts to travel when it's windy or raining."
He says a false sense of security is being given by smugglers, who are offering wooden boats to transport people across the Aegean, rather than rubber dinghies.
"This is the other thing - people may think the wooden boat is safer. But I've seen these boats, they look very old and unseaworthy, mechanically not in good condition.
"And they're packed with 300 to 400 people. If it sinks, the coastguard can't get to everybody. That's what we're now seeing."

Weather conditions are worsening for those on the Greek islands too
On Wednesday night, close to the Lesbos coast, an old tourist boat with three decks full of 400 migrants capsized. Greek patrols rescued 274 people, 16 died. The others remain unfound.
A sense of the conditions migrants are travelling in was confirmed when it later emerged that one of the boat's decks had collapsed.
The figures speak for themselves.
So far this year, around 202 people have died in Greek waters, with many more missing, presumed drowned. Half of those deaths happened this October.
As the weather worsens, aid agencies are calling on EU leaders to once again provide more search and rescue boats, to help support the Greek coastguard, now clearly overwhelmed.

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-34682034

[Liep]

I just read an article about a guy from Denmark who travelled to Lesbos to bury his family who drowned crossing from Turkey. He meets a different kind of pain than sorrow when he goes up against Greek bureaucracy trying to get them to expand the graveyard because it's already full to the brim with other dead refugees.

[mongers]

I just read an article about a guy from Denmark who travelled to Lesbos to bury his family who drowned crossing from Turkey. He meets a different kind of pain than sorrow when he goes up against Greek bureaucracy trying to get them to expand the graveyard because it's already full to the brim with other dead refugees.

I saw a tv interview with a grave digger on the island, not sure if it the same man, but his graveyard was also filled because of the refugee deaths; seemed a compassionate man as he knew where everyone was buried and remembered as much of their 'stories' as likely available. 

[viper37]

BTW I noticed there is some kind of political debate going on in Canada regarding accepting 25 000 Syrian refugees.

It is noble, but also kind of cute: that's like 5 days worth of intake for Europe, and it is a big deal over there.

Europe: 740 000 000 souls
Canada: 30 000 000 souls.
That makes a huge difference on how many we can integrate.  But first, we have to get them over here.  In one month.  Then house them in badly built refugee camps.

[Razgovory]

I've certainly read about doctors and engineers being amongst those coming.
In fact the migrants tend to be from the richer segments of society- they can afford to pay the traffickers.

Yeah, those are the ones the US and Canada plan to take.

[Liep]

There's an arms race in Scandinavia with regards to tightening asylum rules. Prediction, all countries will have border controls before next week and Germany will be left with all the angry refugees/migrants.

[Crazy_Ivan80]

There's an arms race in Scandinavia with regards to tightening asylum rules. Prediction, all countries will have border controls before next week and Germany will be left with all the angry refugees/migrants.

serves them right for shafting europe with the Swarm.

[Zanza]

There's an arms race in Scandinavia with regards to tightening asylum rules. Prediction, all countries will have border controls before next week and Germany will be left with all the angry refugees/migrants.

serves them right for shafting europe with the Swarm.

The swarm? Charming and telling.

[Eddie Teach]

Does horde work better?

[Razgovory]

There's an arms race in Scandinavia with regards to tightening asylum rules. Prediction, all countries will have border controls before next week and Germany will be left with all the angry refugees/migrants.

serves them right for shafting europe with the Swarm.

The swarm? Charming and telling.

As if the previous decade wasn't an indicator.  Separatists seem to share certain traits across the world.

[Syt]

http://news.yahoo.com/french-pm-says-europe-cant-more-refugees-sueddeutsche-080749431.html

French PM says Europe can't take in more refugees: Sueddeutsche Zeitung

BERLIN (Reuters) - European countries are stretched to their limits in the refugee crisis and cannot take in any more new arrivals, French Prime Minister Manuel Valls was quoted as saying in a German newspaper on Wednesday.

Europe is grappling with its worst refugee crisis since World War Two. Germany so far has taken in the bulk of some 1 million people expected to arrive this year.

"We cannot accommodate any more refugees in Europe, that's not possible," Valls told the Sueddeutsche Zeitung, adding that tighter control of Europe's external borders would determine the fate of the European Union.

"If we don't do that, the people will say: Enough of Europe," Valls warned.

The comments were published only hours before German Chancellor Angela Merkel was scheduled to meet French President Francois Hollande in Paris.

Merkel was initially celebrated at home and abroad for her welcoming approach to the refugees, many of whom are fleeing conflict in the Middle East. But as the flow has continued the chancellor has come under increasing criticism.

Some conservatives say Merkel's decision to open up Germany's borders to Syrian refugees in September has spurred more migrants to come.

The refugee debate has become more politically charged after the deadly attacks in Paris that stoked fears Islamic State militants could exploit the migrant crisis to send extremists to Europe.

Valls avoided criticizing Merkel directly for having suspended European asylum rules to allow in Syrian refugees stranded in Hungary. "Germany has made an honorable choice there," he said.

But he signaled that Paris was taken by surprise by Merkel's decision: "It was not France that said: Come!"

French Economy Minister Emmanuel Macron and his German counterpart, Sigmar Gabriel, have proposed setting up a 10 billion euro ($10.7 billion) fund to pay for tighter security, external border controls and caring for refugees.

The United Nations on Tuesday condemned new restrictions on refugees that have left around 1,000 migrants stuck at the main border crossing into Macedonia from Greece.

[Tamas]

The most annoying thing, as they start to realise that free for all entrance extravaganza was a bad idea, that now they make the far right everywhere look like the most competent, since they were saying this quite obvious thing from the start

[Liep]

The most annoying thing, as they start to realise that free for all entrance extravaganza was a bad idea, that now they make the far right everywhere look like the most competent, since they were saying this quite obvious thing from the start

This is the thing that annoys me, the left in all its humanism forgot to actually think about this 2-3 decades ago. Now we're left with a debate that is entirely owned by the far right and the left is completely sidelined because of a fear of appearing far right by saying something even slightly critical of immigration.

The population then has no alternative than to turn right.