EU Immigration Crisis Megathread

[Warspite]

Someone who traverses a thousand miles on one of the most treacherous routes in the modern world must be pretty motivated. To gather the huge sum of money (by the standards of their home country) to pay to do this must mean they're also pretty entrepreneurial.

Maybe we should be absorbing these hardy, industrious folk into the economy to give lazy, indolent native Europeans a kick up the backside.

There are legal channels to immigrate. Giving preferential treatment to people who decline their use seems a bit weird.

The legal channels are increasingly narrow, hence the increasing recourse to illegal means by desperate people trying to find a better life for themselves.

They're going to keep coming, and building a big wall around Europe isn't working. Some solution has to be found.

[Tamas]

He's right about one thing, though. More people will come, and in bigger groups as conditions get worse. Of course the troglodyte kneejerk reaction is to throw them all back into the sea (literally), because the refugees are criminal Islamists who steal our women, take our jobs and leech off our welfare. They possibly even talk in the theatre.

Instead there should be serious efforts to
- help change the situation at the point of origin, so that people don't find traveling through deserts, minefields, and war torn regions, or giving their last possessions to trafickers preferable to staying home
- create an EU system geared towards dealing with the numbers of applicants in a humane fashion, so they don't have to sleep under buses to stay out of the rain or in converted jail cells, and that unaccompanied minors don't spend their days watching paint dry
- look at what the new arrivals can contribute to society

Are there bad apples among the asylum seekers? Of course, like in any group of people. But to hold them all guilty till proven innocent is the same as calling all Americans racist for the acts if a few lunatics.

Yes. Then again, none of this will happen.

[Liep]

- help change the situation at the point of origin, so that people don't find traveling through deserts, minefields, and war torn regions, or giving their last possessions to trafickers preferable to staying home

This sounds great, but will it stop people from trying to immigrate to wealthier countries? Even if we somehow stop those countries from being corrupt wastelands Europe will always be more functional and richer.

Sure, they might not take the most desperate routes but people will always want to live where life is better.

[Syt]

- help change the situation at the point of origin, so that people don't find traveling through deserts, minefields, and war torn regions, or giving their last possessions to trafickers preferable to staying home

This sounds great, but will it stop people from trying to immigrate to wealthier countries? Even if we somehow stop those countries from being corrupt wastelands Europe will always be more functional and richer.

Sure, they might not take the most desperate routes but people will always want to live where life is better.

Yes, but I suspect the amount of migrants would subside considerably if you don't have to worry whether your family will starve because of yet another drought, or if you will see your kids again who ahve been pressed into armed service by the local warlord.

[Liep]

- help change the situation at the point of origin, so that people don't find traveling through deserts, minefields, and war torn regions, or giving their last possessions to trafickers preferable to staying home

This sounds great, but will it stop people from trying to immigrate to wealthier countries? Even if we somehow stop those countries from being corrupt wastelands Europe will always be more functional and richer.

Sure, they might not take the most desperate routes but people will always want to live where life is better.

Yes, but I suspect the amount of migrants would subside considerably if you don't have to worry whether your family will starve because of yet another drought, or if you will see your kids again who ahve been pressed into armed service by the local warlord.

Sure, helping with irrigation and flood prevention etc. is very well and something we already do. Removing warlords has been pretty fucking difficult though. What I'm saying is, it's a big fucking world and people are asshats.

I don't know. What I do think though is you're right in saying we need to see the potential in immigration instead of writing it off as a burden, but looking at the political landscape in Europe right now I say that boat has sailed.

[Crazy_Ivan80]

I don't know. What I do think though is you're right in saying we need to see the potential in immigration instead of writing it off as a burden, but looking at the political landscape in Europe right now I say that boat has sailed.

negative effects are also part of that potential. And it's time for certain parts of the political spectrum to accept that, just like other parts of that spectrum need to accept that there are positive effects as well.
Just like it would be a nice thing if the distinction between asylum-seekers and economical migrants needs to made much more clearly. For the sake of the asylumseekers.

Mass-immigration however, is something different, by virtue of scale and duration. With a lot more potential for negative effects. And what we're seeing is mass-migration. One that is likely to grow bigger, with more potential negative effects, as populations in the shitty parts of world continue to grow, effects of climate change get worse (assuming they of course do get worse) and assuming the shitty parts of the world don't get their houses in order.
Mass-migrations usually aren't happy affairs. Including those on the receiving end.

And finally, there is always that one question: "At what point is enough enough?"

[Grallon]

...

And finally, there is always that one question: "At what point is enough enough?"

When the 'native' population has been largely minoritized?  Which seems to be the goal in certain circles...



G.

[Syt]

 

[Ancient Demon]

He's right about one thing everything, though.

Fixed.

[Ancient Demon]

negative effects are also part of that potential. And it's time for certain parts of the political spectrum to accept that, just like other parts of that spectrum need to accept that there are positive effects as well.
Just like it would be a nice thing if the distinction between asylum-seekers and economical migrants needs to made much more clearly. For the sake of the asylumseekers.

Mass-immigration however, is something different, by virtue of scale and duration. With a lot more potential for negative effects. And what we're seeing is mass-migration. One that is likely to grow bigger, with more potential negative effects, as populations in the shitty parts of world continue to grow, effects of climate change get worse (assuming they of course do get worse) and assuming the shitty parts of the world don't get their houses in order.
Mass-migrations usually aren't happy affairs. Including those on the receiving end.

And finally, there is always that one question: "At what point is enough enough?"

Amen.

[Tamas]

The Great Solution We Don't Need to Do Anything Else Apart from Hate Campaigns on Posters fence on (well, close to) Hungary's border with Serbia has a few weak spots.
Like railroads:

[Syt]

Don't worry, there's solutions for that.

[The Brain]

Someone who traverses a thousand miles on one of the most treacherous routes in the modern world must be pretty motivated. To gather the huge sum of money (by the standards of their home country) to pay to do this must mean they're also pretty entrepreneurial.

Maybe we should be absorbing these hardy, industrious folk into the economy to give lazy, indolent native Europeans a kick up the backside.

There are legal channels to immigrate. Giving preferential treatment to people who decline their use seems a bit weird.

The legal channels are increasingly narrow, hence the increasing recourse to illegal means by desperate people trying to find a better life for themselves.

They're going to keep coming, and building a big wall around Europe isn't working. Some solution has to be found.

The rule of law shouldn't be discarded without careful consideration of the consequences IMHO.

[Liep]

So a Syrian immigrant just cancelled his asylum application to Germany saying: "I came here because I was scared in my home country, but here I'm even more scared".

Turns out daily attacks and humiliations from German country dwellers are worse than civil war. Ouch.

[Norgy]

Some of the posters here need to be sent to Syria.