White woman pretends to be black for prestige

[Razgovory]

The big problem with this woman is she isn't just going around claiming to be black. She is actively profiting from being black. She has based her entire career on it.
Transexuals tend not to do that.

I hear in Thailand they can.

[Josquius]

There the selling point is being a transexual, not being a woman.

[Syt]

[Tonitrus]

Kinda funny that they're representing her being outed by an all-white gang (unless you try to argue that Scooby is black).

[Martinus]

Talking about it twice over the course of six months is now a crusade?

it's just kinda icky this time and feels uncharacteristic. you don't usually attack small, victimized groups often. libertarians and atheists arguably deserve attacks because they can be pretty ridiculous and have powerful supporters. trans people are still pretty dang fringe. it's like hating on eskimos.

The thing is, I find it hard to intellectually refute his point.  As he said in the other thread, if someone thinks they're a giraffe, generally speaking we don't treat that with respect, we consider them deranged and try to get them help.  I don't see any compelling reason  that we should respond to someone who was born with a male body but thinks of themselves as female any differently.

I'm not saying that I agree with him--I'm not sure exactly how I feel about the whole issue--but just that I don't see any compelling logical reason to either agree or disagree.

Wouldn't the general consensus among psychologists and psychiatrists about the nature of trasgenderism (and that it is different from "thinking you are a giraffe") be sufficient, though, in the absence of evidence to the contrary? To me, Raz's position is a bit like arguing that "depression is not real and people suffering from it are just lazy" or that homosexuality is a disease, and not a healthy expression of human sexuality. It could very well be the case if we didn't have studies and opinions of countless psychiatrists and psychologists telling us otherwise. I don't see why we should not take these opinions as valid in case of transgendered people.

The bottom line is everyone has their own struggle and their own truth about who they are. As long as (1) they are not hurting anyone*, and (2) psychiatrists generally agree they are not self-destructively psychotic, I see no reason not to humour them.

*This is the reason, by the way, why I have lately started to change my opinion on religious people. I still don't like and oppose those who would want to ban gay marriage and the like - so hurt the lives and happiness of others, by preventing them from pursuing their own true selves as it were - but I no longer look down on those who are not harming anyone. I guess belief in god and belonging to some religious organisation gives them happiness in life, so who am I to judge them?

[Valmy]

I guess belief in god and belonging to some religious organisation gives them happiness in life, so who am I to judge them?

Thanks Marty

[Tonitrus]

*This is the reason, by the way, why I have lately started to change my opinion on religious people. I still don't like and oppose those who would want to ban gay marriage and the like - so hurt the lives and happiness of others, by preventing them from pursuing their own true selves as it were - but I no longer look down on those who are not harming anyone. I guess belief in god and belonging to some religious organisation gives them happiness in life, so who am I to judge them?

That's my philosophy on life.  The problem comes with the nutcases who come up with the idea that everyone who doesn't think like they do is, by default, "harming" everyone...e.g. ISIS types, and even the Christian religious extremists who argue that non-believers (or homosexuals) are inherently harming society as a whole...just by existing.  I have little problem looking down on them.

[Razgovory]

Talking about it twice over the course of six months is now a crusade?

it's just kinda icky this time and feels uncharacteristic. you don't usually attack small, victimized groups often. libertarians and atheists arguably deserve attacks because they can be pretty ridiculous and have powerful supporters. trans people are still pretty dang fringe. it's like hating on eskimos.

The thing is, I find it hard to intellectually refute his point.  As he said in the other thread, if someone thinks they're a giraffe, generally speaking we don't treat that with respect, we consider them deranged and try to get them help.  I don't see any compelling reason  that we should respond to someone who was born with a male body but thinks of themselves as female any differently.

I'm not saying that I agree with him--I'm not sure exactly how I feel about the whole issue--but just that I don't see any compelling logical reason to either agree or disagree.

Wouldn't the general consensus among psychologists and psychiatrists about the nature of trasgenderism (and that it is different from "thinking you are a giraffe") be sufficient, though, in the absence of evidence to the contrary? To me, Raz's position is a bit like arguing that "depression is not real and people suffering from it are just lazy" or that homosexuality is a disease, and not a healthy expression of human sexuality. It could very well be the case if we didn't have studies and opinions of countless psychiatrists and psychologists telling us otherwise. I don't see why we should not take these opinions as valid in case of transgendered people.

The bottom line is everyone has their own struggle and their own truth about who they are. As long as (1) they are not hurting anyone*, and (2) psychiatrists generally agree they are not self-destructively psychotic, I see no reason not to humour them.

*This is the reason, by the way, why I have lately started to change my opinion on religious people. I still don't like and oppose those who would want to ban gay marriage and the like - so hurt the lives and happiness of others, by preventing them from pursuing their own true selves as it were - but I no longer look down on those who are not harming anyone. I guess belief in god and belonging to some religious organisation gives them happiness in life, so who am I to judge them?

You do know that this is a cataloged mental illness right?  It's in the DSM-V.  But let's try and look at the opinions of a widely regarded poster and his opinions on a similar movement on the acceptance of undesirable physical characteristics.

Well, I took an exception to her posting memes and articles about "fat acceptance". Especially the one with the slogan "Don't Let Your Mind Bully Your Body". I thought that ship has sailed.

http://languish.org/forums/index.php/topic,12490.msg842636.html#msg842636

Don't get me wrong. I have no great love for Lena Dunham. But if we are to lambast her for something, then it should be her "fat acceptance" attitude, which advocates harmful, unhealthy behaviours, not her creepy childhood oversharing.

http://languish.org/forums/index.php/topic,12117.msg800351.html#msg800351

Fat acceptance guys are actually shitheads and uggos with low self esteem who deliberately lower their standards in the hope of a pity fuck (and knowing they are unable to score with the chicks they actually find attractive, anyway).

http://languish.org/forums/index.php/topic,9510.msg552466.html#msg552466

Let's hope so - maybe it will affect some of the "fat acceptance" pigs to lose some weight - or their husbands to dump them.

http://languish.org/forums/index.php/topic,9576.msg555222.html#msg555222

If there is anything wrong with modern society it's the "fat acceptance" and similar style movements.

Unlike most other industries that have succumbed to the lowest common denominator, the fashion industry has had aspired to the ideal for a long time, embracing not the fat, ugly and disgusting masses, but the few slim, pretty and young. Unfortunately, now even this is falling under the stampede of disgusting ugly slobs.

http://languish.org/forums/index.php/topic,9834.msg581817.html#msg581817

[Tonitrus]

[The Brain]

Kinda funny that they're representing her being outed by an all-white gang (unless you try to argue that Scooby is black).

Scooby is actually a dog.

[Legbiter]

Well, marti's not wrong on fat acceptance per se.

[Valmy]

Fat acceptance is weird. What is it I am supposed to do exactly? Feel good about fatness in my heart? But I guess a lot of these things are like 'Don't treat people like shit because XXXX'

Seems like you could just cut lots of complications just be not treating people like shit in general instead of having a ridiculous number of things we cannot treat people like shit for. It would make things so less complicated.

[The Brain]

Fat acceptance is weird. What is it I am supposed to do exactly? Feel good about fatness in my heart? But I guess a lot of these things are like 'Don't treat people like shit because XXXX'

Seems like you could just cut lots of complications just be not treating people like shit in general instead of having a ridiculous number of things we cannot treat people like shit for. It would make things so less complicated.

Yes let's be nice to Hitler.

[Valmy]

Yes let's be nice to Hitler.

Nazi acceptance!

[Razgovory]

Fat acceptance is weird. What is it I am supposed to do exactly? Feel good about fatness in my heart? But I guess a lot of these things are like 'Don't treat people like shit because XXXX'

This sums up my feeling toward transsexualism.  Sort of a confused ambivalence.