[Gay] Gay News from Around the Gay World That is Gay

[Martinus]

I can't help but  be leery of transsexual recognition.  I'm not entirely keen having some someone impose their fantasy world on the rest of us and demand that we accept facts that aren't actually true.

I am going to get so much shit on this.

I guess it's the same way we are expected to use the word "Pope" or "rabbi" to describe a bullshit peddler with sexual hang-ups who lives in a fantasy world.

[Valmy]

So what do you guys make of the whole Bruce/Catleen Jenner thing?

I was like 'oh that guy who won the Decathalon back when I was a little kid? Well good for her sorry it happened so late in life'

And then the story just kept going and going and going and going. I was not aware of the hate. Sad but I guess not surprising. But even if you personally do not like transgender stuff at least be polite damn. It isn't any of your business.

Saw two more pictures in which he/she looked like a dude with lipstick.

Well think of it like this: if we are more respectful of transgender issues we can catch them while they are still kids and are less likely to have this problem. But having said that it is not like there are not plenty of ugly women.

[Valmy]

I can't help but  be leery of transsexual recognition.  I'm not entirely keen having some someone impose their fantasy world on the rest of us and demand that we accept facts that aren't actually true.

Only in the very specific realm of sexual reproduction would I expect that to relevant. Like if I was dating a transwoman with the expectation we were going to have children and she led me on that that was a possibility. But that would kind of go for anybody who cannot reproduce for whatever reason. But beyond that I don't see why I would care if somebody wants me to treat them like a man or a woman. No biggie.

[Razgovory]

I can't help but  be leery of transsexual recognition.  I'm not entirely keen having some someone impose their fantasy world on the rest of us and demand that we accept facts that aren't actually true.

I am going to get so much shit on this.

I guess it's the same way we are expected to use the word "Pope" or "rabbi" to describe a bullshit peddler with sexual hang-ups who lives in a fantasy world.

Would you have sex with a woman if she decided to reclassify herself as a man?

[Razgovory]

I can't help but  be leery of transsexual recognition.  I'm not entirely keen having some someone impose their fantasy world on the rest of us and demand that we accept facts that aren't actually true.

Only in the very specific realm of sexual reproduction would I expect that to relevant. Like if I was dating a transwoman with the expectation we were going to have children and she led me on that that was a possibility. But that would kind of go for anybody who cannot reproduce for whatever reason. But beyond that I don't see why I would care if somebody wants me to treat them like a man or a woman. No biggie.

It feels a lot like patronizing someone.  Marty, brought up religion ( I suspected he would), would you be bothered if you were expected to act as if certain religious beliefs were true even though you don't believe they are?

[Admiral Yi]

http://www.cnn.com/videos/tv/2015/06/06/smr-trangender-doctor-on-caitlyn-jenner.cnn

CNN interviewed a transgender doctor who makes vaginas.  Pretty good looking.  I would hit it.

Also the procedure is a lot cheaper than I would have thought: $25,000.

[Valmy]

It feels a lot like patronizing someone.  Marty, brought up religion ( I suspected he would), would you be bothered if you were expected to act as if certain religious beliefs were true even though you don't believe they are?

Don't we already do this to some extent with our freedom of religion thing and tax breaks for Scientology?

[Razgovory]

The state does, you are not required to do so.  You, Valmy are not required to recognize thetans nor should you if you don't believe that to be true.  You can pretend you do, but that smacks of patronizing.  I dislike like people demanding I substitute their fantasy for objective reality be they man, woman, or otherkin.

[Martinus]

I can't help but  be leery of transsexual recognition.  I'm not entirely keen having some someone impose their fantasy world on the rest of us and demand that we accept facts that aren't actually true.

I am going to get so much shit on this.

I guess it's the same way we are expected to use the word "Pope" or "rabbi" to describe a bullshit peddler with sexual hang-ups who lives in a fantasy world.

Would you have sex with a woman if she decided to reclassify herself as a man?

Not sure what that has to do with anything - I would not have sex with a lot of men - that does not change the fact that they are men.

But to answer your question: I don't know. I guess it would depend on how they smelled - I don't know enough about gender reassignment procedure and associated hormonal treatment to know if this also changes pheromones and stuff. But if that part was right, I see no reason why not (I'm not much into dicks anyway) - for example the trans guy who is running for Men's Health award (the picture of whom I posted in the past on this forum) looks quite hot, so if he smelled right, I definitely would.

Edit: and for the record, transgendered people do frequently find partners nominally attracted to the gender that they transitioned to - and not all of them are T-chasers. I say let people be who they believe they are as long as they are not hurting anyone else.

[Martinus]

I can't help but  be leery of transsexual recognition.  I'm not entirely keen having some someone impose their fantasy world on the rest of us and demand that we accept facts that aren't actually true.

Only in the very specific realm of sexual reproduction would I expect that to relevant. Like if I was dating a transwoman with the expectation we were going to have children and she led me on that that was a possibility. But that would kind of go for anybody who cannot reproduce for whatever reason. But beyond that I don't see why I would care if somebody wants me to treat them like a man or a woman. No biggie.

It feels a lot like patronizing someone.  Marty, brought up religion ( I suspected he would), would you be bothered if you were expected to act as if certain religious beliefs were true even though you don't believe they are?

But we are expected to act as if they might - or at least play along out of respect. From an objective point of view, any religious belief is a crock of shit and delusion, unless you believe in one - if you are not Christian, someone telling you they believe Jesus was born out of virgin, raised dead from graves, walked on water, and came back after dying is no different then someone telling you they believe they have magical elves living in their sock drawer - but yet you are, by and large, expected to respect their feelings and not to deride them the way these people deride Bruce/Catleen Jenner's belief in what her gender is.

[Admiral Yi]

Marty, what exactly is it you do in the gay department?  You don't like dicks and you don't like anal.

Do you hold hands a lot?

[Martinus]

Marty, what exactly is it you do in the gay department?  You don't like dicks and you don't like anal.

Do you hold hands a lot?

That is a rather personal question.

And I didn't say I don't do dicks - I just don't mind not doing them.

[Razgovory]

But we are expected to act as if they might - or at least play along out of respect. From an objective point of view, any religious belief is a crock of shit and delusion, unless you believe in one - if you are not Christian, someone telling you they believe Jesus was born out of virgin, raised dead from graves, walked on water, and came back after dying is no different then someone telling you they believe they have magical elves living in their sock drawer - but yet you are, by and large, expected to respect their feelings and not to deride them the way these people deride Bruce/Catleen Jenner's belief in what her gender is.

Then you fall very short of expectations since you have said you don't respect such people and called them "stupid".  Why should someone respect someone's personal fantasy that is clearly and demonstrably not true?  Let me ask you, if you run into a man on the street and say "excuse me, sir" and he screams at you that he's actually a woman what is the correct thought pattern?  That this is a transgender person? That this person is suffering a delusion? That you really need to get glasses?  That you ran into a person wearing a very inept disguise?  That you are a terrible person?  That they are just fucking with you?

[Martinus]

But we are expected to act as if they might - or at least play along out of respect. From an objective point of view, any religious belief is a crock of shit and delusion, unless you believe in one - if you are not Christian, someone telling you they believe Jesus was born out of virgin, raised dead from graves, walked on water, and came back after dying is no different then someone telling you they believe they have magical elves living in their sock drawer - but yet you are, by and large, expected to respect their feelings and not to deride them the way these people deride Bruce/Catleen Jenner's belief in what her gender is.

Then you fall very short of expectations since you have said you don't respect such people and called them "stupid".  Why should someone respect someone's personal fantasy that is clearly and demonstrably not true?  Let me ask you, if you run into a man on the street and say "excuse me, sir" and he screams at you that he's actually a woman what is the correct thought pattern?  That this is a transgender person? That this person is suffering a delusion? That you really need to get glasses?  That you ran into a person wearing a very inept disguise?  That you are a terrible person?  That they are just fucking with you?

Do you encounter such situations offer? Because to me this seems like something very unusual so not sure why we need to have a rule for that.

[Razgovory]

I can't help but  be leery of transsexual recognition.  I'm not entirely keen having some someone impose their fantasy world on the rest of us and demand that we accept facts that aren't actually true.

I am going to get so much shit on this.

I guess it's the same way we are expected to use the word "Pope" or "rabbi" to describe a bullshit peddler with sexual hang-ups who lives in a fantasy world.

Would you have sex with a woman if she decided to reclassify herself as a man?

Not sure what that has to do with anything - I would not have sex with a lot of men - that does not change the fact that they are men.

But to answer your question: I don't know. I guess it would depend on how they smelled - I don't know enough about gender reassignment procedure and associated hormonal treatment to know if this also changes pheromones and stuff. But if that part was right, I see no reason why not (I'm not much into dicks anyway) - for example the trans guy who is running for Men's Health award (the picture of whom I posted in the past on this forum) looks quite hot, so if he smelled right, I definitely would.

Edit: and for the record, transgendered people do frequently find partners nominally attracted to the gender that they transitioned to - and not all of them are T-chasers. I say let people be who they believe they are as long as they are not hurting anyone else.

It's about honestly.  We can talk about accepting a person for who they identify themselves as, but at a sexual level it just won't work for most people.  A straight man is unlikely to want to have sex with another man even if that man is wearing women's clothing.  At this fundamental and basic level this pretense of acceptance falls apart.  I don't know if it's the same with gay men, but I assume that all things being equal they would prefer to have sex with their preferred gender rather then a person of the physically opposite gender that has decided they are different one.

Pretend we do a test on you.  I show you pictures of naked women, men and transsexuals who have had no operations.  Assuming same general level of attractiveness, no make up and standing in the same positions with no knowledge of the naked individuals beside the photographs I show you, which group (or groups), would you find sexually arousing?  My guess is your choices will be skewed toward the men, and transsexual women which would be physically indistinguishable.  At this basic level you show discrimination.  You can say you are blind to these differences, but when it comes down to it, you aren't.  You have to be cued into by other factors (such as clothing, make up, voice, hairstyle "smell", or whatever).  If you really accepted them as the gender they claim to be but physically are not you would not need these cues.