The Cops Can Pretty Much Always Search Your Smartphone in Canada

[celedhring]

Right after 9/11 the boys and girls in blue had clearly not figured out what an Ayrab looked like, because I was pulled out every single leg of every single flight I took.

Beeb: as I said before, there are more direct ways to say provide more details.  Like saying "please provide more details."

But it is not really the details they are after.  They are looking at how the person is responding to the question.  For example, it would be odd for someone not to react somewhat negatively to a question which is asked in a rude manner.

I don't know, I probably wouldn't out of fear of pissing the officer off further.

As I said, though, border control officers have always been pretty nice to me, even when asking these kind of details.

[CountDeMoney]

Right after 9/11 the boys and girls in blue had clearly not figured out what an Ayrab looked like, because I was pulled out every single leg of every single flight I took.

They didn't exist right after 9/11.

YOU KNOW WHAT HE MEANS

[Barrister]

As BB has already said, the point of asking you the questions is to determine whether you should be sent for a secondary search where your bags will be searched.  Your suggestion that all citizens should be searched seems a bit draconian (if not entirely inefficient).

It isn't my suggestion to search every bag. But for what its worth, in the US (and other places) you have to go through a security screen upon arrival anyway.

You have lost me.  What do you mean by a "security screen"?

Take things out of pockets, go through a naked scanner, take out laptops and electronics from bags, and basically stuff like getting on a plane.

That's entirely separate, done by a separate agency.

That's done by CATSA in Canada, by officials who are little more trained than mall security cops.  They're only looking to prevent weapons from being transported on planes.  It's done at the start of your flight.

The search you're complaining about is done by border guards.  They're they are looking for any contraband being brought into the country.  It's done at the end of your flight.

[alfred russel]

That's entirely separate, done by a separate agency.

That's done by CATSA in Canada, by officials who are little more trained than mall security cops.  They're only looking to prevent weapons from being transported on planes.  It's done at the start of your flight.

The search you're complaining about is done by border guards.  They're they are looking for any contraband being brought into the country.  It's done at the end of your flight.

I do recognize the distinction, but if you are going to screen people entering the country because you don't trust the screening the foreigners did, you could integrate the border guards into the process.

[crazy canuck]

As BB has already said, the point of asking you the questions is to determine whether you should be sent for a secondary search where your bags will be searched.  Your suggestion that all citizens should be searched seems a bit draconian (if not entirely inefficient).

It isn't my suggestion to search every bag. But for what its worth, in the US (and other places) you have to go through a security screen upon arrival anyway.

You have lost me.  What do you mean by a "security screen"?

Take things out of pockets, go through a naked scanner, take out laptops and electronics from bags, and basically stuff like getting on a plane.

But that has nothing to do with a determination of whether you are smuggling goods in your baggage - whether it be carry on or checked.

[crazy canuck]

That's entirely separate, done by a separate agency.

That's done by CATSA in Canada, by officials who are little more trained than mall security cops.  They're only looking to prevent weapons from being transported on planes.  It's done at the start of your flight.

The search you're complaining about is done by border guards.  They're they are looking for any contraband being brought into the country.  It's done at the end of your flight.

I do recognize the distinction, but if you are going to screen people entering the country because you don't trust the screening the foreigners did, you could integrate the border guards into the process.

The screening isn't to enter a country.  The screening is to allow you onto the plane and it is often done by an agency completely unrelated to the country you will attempt to enter.  ie it has nothing to do with your ability to enter a country at the other end of the flight.

[Jacob]

Yeah, the pre-flight security screen isn't intended to find cocaine in your luggage, and the exit-the-airport screen is unconcerned with bottles of water, lighters et. al.

[garbon]

Border Agents and rudeness... yeah, some of them can be pretty obnoxious, and I'd prefer them not to be. At this time, however, I've accepted it as a fact of life. That said, I do think there's value in the "welcome to America, enjoy your visit" or "welcome home" you get from the pleasant ones once in a while... Border Agents are the first impression of a country, and it can be a stressful situation for travellers so the impression is magnified; and the perception of a country does matter (hence various PR campaigns etc), so I think it'd be pretty worthwhile to increase the amount of niceness from Border Agents (once you've passed the various screenings, naturally).

Yeah, my initial impression of Quebec was tainted by rudeness at the border. Of course, later I met someone who told me that he was one of the managers along the border and it sound like they had been unusually dickish.

Which I can attest to as never was quite the same on my later visits.

[alfred russel]

Yeah, the pre-flight security screen isn't intended to find cocaine in your luggage, and the exit-the-airport screen is unconcerned with bottles of water, lighters et. al.

In the US the exit screens are also concerned with water, lighters, etc.

However, I'm not sure if that is universal, or if it is just because I have had a connecting flight in the US or some airports are designed so that people arriving at their final destination mix with people that are connecting after clearing the screening.

[Jacob]

Yeah, the pre-flight security screen isn't intended to find cocaine in your luggage, and the exit-the-airport screen is unconcerned with bottles of water, lighters et. al.

In the US the exit screens are also concerned with water, lighters, etc.

However, I'm not sure if that is universal, or if it is just because I have had a connecting flight in the US or some airports are designed so that people arriving at their final destination mix with people that are connecting after clearing the screening.

Sorry, bad terminology on my part. I meant "customs and immigration" is not concerned with water and lighters.

Though, as you say, if you are entering a part of the airport where you're not supposed to have outside water and lighters etc after clearing customs, I suppose someone will screen you for those items. But I'm pretty sure that the customs agents don't care about bottled water.

[Syt]

Right after 9/11 the boys and girls in blue had clearly not figured out what an Ayrab looked like, because I was pulled out every single leg of every single flight I took.

Beeb: as I said before, there are more direct ways to say provide more details.  Like saying "please provide more details."

Half a year after 9/11 my Mom carried a suitcase full of undeclared German food (about half of which was some sort of meat product - pork ham, sausages, cold cuts, bratwursts...) through U.S. customs without a hitch.

[alfred russel]

Yeah, the pre-flight security screen isn't intended to find cocaine in your luggage, and the exit-the-airport screen is unconcerned with bottles of water, lighters et. al.

In the US the exit screens are also concerned with water, lighters, etc.

However, I'm not sure if that is universal, or if it is just because I have had a connecting flight in the US or some airports are designed so that people arriving at their final destination mix with people that are connecting after clearing the screening.

Sorry, bad terminology on my part. I meant "customs and immigration" is not concerned with water and lighters.

Though, as you say, if you are entering a part of the airport where you're not supposed to have outside water and lighters etc after clearing customs, I suppose someone will screen you for those items. But I'm pretty sure that the customs agents don't care about bottled water.

My point is that customs agents, the police, security, etc. are all agents of the government. I do believe it is possible to leverage processes already in place and still achieve the government's objectives.

[alfred russel]

Half a year after 9/11 my Mom carried a suitcase full of undeclared German food (about half of which was some sort of meat product - pork ham, sausages, cold cuts, bratwursts...) through U.S. customs without a hitch.

I have never had anything happen at US customs besides very cursory conversation.

[crazy canuck]

Yeah, the pre-flight security screen isn't intended to find cocaine in your luggage, and the exit-the-airport screen is unconcerned with bottles of water, lighters et. al.

In the US the exit screens are also concerned with water, lighters, etc.

However, I'm not sure if that is universal, or if it is just because I have had a connecting flight in the US or some airports are designed so that people arriving at their final destination mix with people that are connecting after clearing the screening.

I think you are getting confused by arrangements the US government has made in certain foreign airports to arrange pre-boarding customs and immigration clearance for passengers boarding the flight.  So for example, for certain flights, I can clear customs and immigration for entry into the US at the Vancouver airport.  But when that occurs I first clear security and then I pass through US customs and immigration officers.  They are two separate stops and they perform two very different functions.

[Jacob]

My point is that customs agents, the police, security, etc. are all agents of the government. I do believe it is possible to leverage processes already in place and still achieve the government's objectives.

You should set up a consultancy. You seem to be well placed to establish benchmarks and deliverables that can leverage existing assets and create win-win situations for all stakeholders.