It's Bibipalooza! Live, from Congress! One show only!

[Neil]

When Mitt Romney is banging the war drums during his presidential campaign, I don't think it's unreasonable for the Iranians to feel that the US might attack them.  And now you have a significant portion of the US Senate repudiating diplomacy, and it's not really that unreasonable for the Iranians to seek a deterrent.

That you see any attempt to look at things from the Iranian point of view as 'trolling' says more about you than it does me.

I don't think it's completely unreasonable either.  But suggesting that an attack on nuclear facilities to prevent Iran's acquisition of nuclear weapons is a good rationale for pursuing nuclear weapons is at best retarded.

Iran was a part of the Axis of Evil, along with Iraq and North Korea.  Iraq didn't get nuclear weapons, was invaded by the US and their allies and then ceased to exist as a meaningful polity.  North Korea got the bomb, and remains independent to this day.  If you're the leader of a country in that kind of position, it's not completely beyond reason to think that rushing a bomb is a rational move.

[Admiral Yi]

Iran was a part of the Axis of Evil, along with Iraq and North Korea.  Iraq didn't get nuclear weapons, was invaded by the US and their allies and then ceased to exist as a meaningful polity.  North Korea got the bomb, and remains independent to this day.  If you're the leader of a country in that kind of position, it's not completely beyond reason to think that rushing a bomb is a rational move.

When did Iran begin its nuclear program, the day after the Axis of Evil speech?

[Neil]

Israel is our only true friend in the Middle East and as such we need to stand by them at all costs.  We can't trust any other country in that (strategically critical) region.

Sometimes friends want different things.  The US wants peace in the Middle East, whereas Israel wants to expand.

[Caliga]

Sometimes friends want different things.  The US wants peace in the Middle East, whereas Israel wants to expand.

Those goals are not necessarily mutually exclusive.

[Neil]

Iran was a part of the Axis of Evil, along with Iraq and North Korea.  Iraq didn't get nuclear weapons, was invaded by the US and their allies and then ceased to exist as a meaningful polity.  North Korea got the bomb, and remains independent to this day.  If you're the leader of a country in that kind of position, it's not completely beyond reason to think that rushing a bomb is a rational move.

When did Iran begin its nuclear program, the day after the Axis of Evil speech?

The late 1950s.

[Neil]

Sometimes friends want different things.  The US wants peace in the Middle East, whereas Israel wants to expand.

Those goals are not necessarily mutually exclusive.

Of course they are.  How can Israel expand without violence?

[Caliga]

After that, there will be peace.

[Neil]

After that, there will be peace.

There will always be another group of refugees displaced by Israeli expansion that will continue to drive the cycle of terrorism.

[Valmy]

After that, there will be peace.

At least they won't have to make a desert and call it peace. The desert is already there.

[Caliga]

After that, there will be peace.

There will always be another group of refugees displaced by Israeli expansion that will continue to drive the cycle of terrorism.

"Death solves all problems.  No man, no problem."

?

[Valmy]

The Israelis have a lot of balls but they lack the stomach for genocide.

[Caliga]

Maybe they can trick the Iranians into doing their dirty work?

[DontSayBanana]

Israel is our only true friend in the Middle East and as such we need to stand by them at all costs.  We can't trust any other country in that (strategically critical) region.

The problem here is you're assuming they're a true friend.  Even after snubbing Obama in an ill-advised visit to Congress, prompting an ill-advised attempt by the Republicans to interfere in the negotiations with Iran, even then, Netanyahu still had the balls to accuse the US of pumping money into efforts to get him out of office.

We have no true friends in that region, and I'm starting to think we'd do better to acknowledge that fact and switch to a Soviet-era policy of containment: let them all whack each other until they're too tired to be obstinate, and then step in and help them rebuild.

[Caliga]

I guess I chose my words poorly here.  I probably should have said "true ally" (friends and allies most definitely not being the same thing).

I view Israel as a secure foothold in the Middle East and the only one we reliably have and have had since pretty much the end of WWII.  We used to have that with Iran too, but alas the Iranians went nutty and overthrew the Shah.

In my view if we were ever to let that foothold slip away there would be the real danger of the entire region falling under the sway of crazies like ISIS.  We can't allow that to happen.

[Valmy]

Nothing nutty about overthrowing the Shah. Now what they replaced it with? That's something else.