The President's First Insult

[Razgovory]

So there were no Muslim in the US except for the ones that are documented to have been here.  Fact is the article in the OP tells a lie.  Of course there was were also Muslims in the US who were slaves...

Well yes if we take to a rigid extreme then sure.  Obviously there are few absolutes in history.

I don't think if someone says there is no record of Muslims in the US prior to 20th century and responding "no, that's wrong, here are some" is somehow extreme.  There are plenty of Absolutes, for instance if the author wrote that there are no records of Muslims in the US prior to the 18th century and none in North America prior 15th, that would in fact be true as far as I know.  I would have no problem with the veracity of that statement.

[Valmy]

So there were no Muslim in the US except for the ones that are documented to have been here.  Fact is the article in the OP tells a lie.  Of course there was were also Muslims in the US who were slaves...

Well yes if we take to a rigid extreme then sure.  Obviously there are few absolutes in history.

I don't think if someone says there is no record of Muslims in the US prior to 20th century and responding "no, that's wrong, here are some" is somehow extreme.  There are plenty of Absolutes, for instance if the author wrote that there are no records of Muslims in the US prior to the 18th century and none in North America prior 15th, that would in fact be true as far as I know.  I would have no problem with the veracity of that statement.

The extreme is to then say it is a lie.  The non-extreme response to say it is not true.  But lots of things in history are both true and untrue at the same time. 

[Razgovory]

Probably for a while, likely through a few generations, but in the long run no, it was stamped out.

While probably true you are guessing.  If there were large amounts of Muslims who were difficult to convert surely there would be some documentation about this?

However, there are Muslims recorded in North America prior to formation of the US and a few after.  http://www.washingtonpost.com/local/the-search-for-yarrow-mamout/2012/12/26/aba8ae7e-3d7b-11e2-bca3-aadc9b7e29c5_story.html  This guy is believed to have been a Muslim slave who was freed.

Indeed there were.  But out of hundreds of thousands of documented freed slaves there is only one?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abdulrahman_Ibrahim_Ibn_Sori  Here's another.  I have just doubled the number you knew about.  What exactly is your point here.  You never heard that some African slaves were Muslim before?

[Razgovory]

The extreme is to then say it is a lie.  The non-extreme response to say it is not true.  But lots of things in history are both true and untrue at the same time.

In response to yet another diatribe against the Muslims I think "Lie" is good enough word.  I would use similarly strong words against other defamation.  For instance the Protocols of the Elders of Zion is a Fraud, not merely untrue.

[Ed Anger]

So is Valmy a bad guy now? I want to denounce his pinko Austin ways.

[Valmy]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abdulrahman_Ibrahim_Ibn_Sori  Here's another.  I have just doubled the number you knew about.  What exactly is your point here.

My point is that while I do indeed think that some African slaves were Muslims what you said is a guess.  That they were 'stamped out' after a few generations.  We just do not know how many of them were Muslims and how it was dealt with.  Ok more specifically I have researched this a bit and have not found much.

Also in the 1850 census there were freed individuals who were born in Africa.  Obviously there would have been a number of slaves who had been born in Africa and many of their children would have still been alive by 1865.  So one would think if Islam was something a significant number of slaves had, Islamic communities would have made themselves felt after emancipation.  Or maybe there were and we just have not found them yet.

Or maybe not for some reason I am not aware of.  Maybe it was somehow eliminated in the first or second generation?  Awareness of Islam as a potential barrier for converting their slaves to Christianity does not appear to be documented anywhere.  But surely it must have someplace.  But I don't know.

You never heard that some African slaves were Muslim before?

Um...yes.  Saying 'while probably true' and 'indeed there were' indicates I doubt some slaves were Muslims?  I am aware of it, I am honestly interested in what is true and what is not.  That Moroccan being nabbed in Guinea is pretty damn amazing.

Having said all that it would be very convenient if Muslims had this long and important history in the US for helping to get young Muslims to embrace an American-Muslim identity so I hope a lot more research is done on this.

[Valmy]

The extreme is to then say it is a lie.  The non-extreme response to say it is not true.  But lots of things in history are both true and untrue at the same time.

In response to yet another diatribe against the Muslims I think "Lie" is good enough word.  I would use similarly strong words against other defamation.  For instance the Protocols of the Elders of Zion is a Fraud, not merely untrue.

I think missing a rather obscure historical thing is different than the 'Protocols of the Elders of Zion'.  I have already made my disagreement with the article in question pretty clear.

[Valmy]

So is Valmy a bad guy now? I want to denounce his pinko Austin ways.

Raz will judge me and find me...unworthy.

[garbon]

I have to admit, V, that I don't find your ignorance of Muslim African slaves to be compelling evidence that they didn't exist.

[Valmy]

I have to admit, V, that I don't find your ignorance of Muslim African slaves to be compelling evidence that they didn't exist.

They clearly did exist, or rather I presume they existed.  I would like to know more about them and have been puzzled by my inability to find much.  If you know something please let me know.  I do not see anywhere where I have claimed I am ignorant so therefore they did not exist.

[garbon]

I'm puzzled too given that you have access to google.

[Eddie Teach]

So is Valmy a bad guy now? I want to denounce his pinko Austin ways.

He's ashamed President Bush is from Texas.

[Valmy]

I'm puzzled too given that you have access to google.

Well fair enough I suppose.  Excuse me for asking questions about a subject I am interested in.

[Ed Anger]

So is Valmy a bad guy now? I want to denounce his pinko Austin ways.

He's ashamed President Bush is from Texas.

He should be ashamed at the state of Texas football. SHAMED

Go A&M

[Valmy]

He's ashamed President Bush is from Texas.

But if I was a successful country music act I would keep that to myself.