The President's First Insult

[Valmy]

That's not really the impetus for the modern usage of the term.  It was used in the 40s and 50s to fight against anti-semitism, arguing that the two religions shared a common value system.

That a fact?  If it is that recent who was it who first used the term?  Let me check....

Looks like it might have been introduced by these guys: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Conference_for_Community_and_Justice

As the "National Conference of Christians and Jews" so I guess literally a 'Judeo-Christian' organization.

[frunk]

It seems to me that that lines up almost perfectly with what I said.

You make it sound like a casual "oh, yeah, and Judaism is nice too", rather than an intentional and pointed effort to consider the two religions as able to cooperate at a fundamental level.  Giving props or acknowledging roots is not the same thing.

[The Larch]

It must be really hard to live with a skin so thin as the one from the OP's article.

[Admiral Yi]

Jacob: plus the Old Testament is read in most church services.  Biblical stories are repeated in Sunday schools.

[Valmy]

Reading more it looks like the reason the term is getting a bad reputation now is because social conservatives use it as a descriptor of their values.

That is probably where the sense of 'co-opting' comes from.

[Admiral Yi]

Reading more it looks like the reason the term is getting a bad reputation now is because social conservatives use it as a descriptor of their values.

That is probably where the sense of 'co-opting' comes from.

Then the question becomes IMO whether the people using it need the permission of all, or even some, Jews.

[Malthus]

I love ya Siege, but how in the hell did one of your 'Obama outrage' threads get this large?   

[derspiess]

Reading more it looks like the reason the term is getting a bad reputation now is because social conservatives use it as a descriptor of their values.

That is probably where the sense of 'co-opting' comes from.

Then the question becomes IMO whether the people using it need the permission of all, or even some, Jews.

I think written permission from one Jew covers it.

[The Brain]

Reading more it looks like the reason the term is getting a bad reputation now is because social conservatives use it as a descriptor of their values.

That is probably where the sense of 'co-opting' comes from.

Then the question becomes IMO whether the people using it need the permission of all, or even some, Jews.

Get?

[crazy canuck]

I know plenty of Jews, American ones as well, who find the whole "Judeo-Christian" thing pretty insulting, and who do not think "the facts show that."

Then they probably don't understand that the "Judeo" in Judeo-Christian is a reference to the fact that the "Old Testament" was included in the Bible.  It is not a suggestion that the US is part Jewish and part Christian.  It is reference to the fact that the US is entirely a Christian nation and the Old Testament forms part of Christianity's Holy Book.

Yes, I am sure that it American Jews who don't understand, and it is you that does understand. 

I agree.  If anyone is confused as to what the phrase Judeo-Christian means they should not, for example, be allowed to teach.

[crazy canuck]

I think the term is usually used when there is a desire to reference a common cultural/social bond that presumably arises from this common religious heritage. IE, Judeo-Christian values.

Yeah, and I'm trying to figure out what that common cultural/social bond is, and what the common religious heritage is.

Its the Christian narrative that Jesus was predicted in the Jewish texts.   That is the whole reason the "Old Testament" is included in the Bible.  It gives the Gospels validity.  Otherwise it is pretty hard to explain why God arrived unannounced.

[crazy canuck]

I just have a hard time seeing people 100 years ago, or whenever this term came about, saying 'we need to beef up the legitimacy of our Christian heritage, let's steal the mojo from the Jews.'

Correct.  They didn't come to that conclusion 100 years ago.  They decided that when the Bible texts were being decided.  As I am pretty sure you know, there was a significant movement that thought that no Jewish texts should be included.  Also it wasn't that long ago that Jews were still referred to as the killers of Christ and so it is a bit comical to hear people like Berkut claim the phrase "Judeo-Christian" was meant to give a bow to the Jewish traditions and not simply the Christian narrative.

[grumbler]

It's a paraphyletic grouping, which reduces its utility but doesn't make it completely useless.

On the other hand if we judge something by the wiki article about it then this is a truly terrible term and should be avoided at all costs.

That's just telling us to avoid Wikipedia at all costs. 

[Valmy]

I just have a hard time seeing people 100 years ago, or whenever this term came about, saying 'we need to beef up the legitimacy of our Christian heritage, let's steal the mojo from the Jews.'

Correct.  They didn't come to that conclusion 100 years ago.  They decided that when the Bible texts were being decided.  As I am pretty sure you know, there was a significant movement that thought that no Jewish texts should be included.  Also it wasn't that long ago that Jews were still referred to as the killers of Christ and so it is a bit comical to hear people like Berkut claim the phrase "Judeo-Christian" was meant to give a bow to the Jewish traditions and not simply the Christian narrative.

Um actually the term seems to be invented by a Jewish-Christian group in the 20th century.  So it is not comical at all to make that claim since that was, seemingly, the whole point of it.

And I am pretty sure Jews are still referred to as the killers of Christ.

[Valmy]

Its the Christian narrative that Jesus was predicted in the Jewish texts.   That is the whole reason the "Old Testament" is included in the Bible.  It gives the Gospels validity.  Otherwise it is pretty hard to explain why God arrived unannounced.

The narrative that you are discussing would see no need to include Old Testament Judaism as something separate from Christianity since Christianity was the new Israel.