Blood Bowl coming out on the 26th June 2009

[The Brain]

Plural of skaven is skaven.

So how come a GW fanboi like you is not playing this game? It is rather cool.

Played it when it was new, and again a couple of months ago. It's a fun game.

[Tamas]

So whats the secret of an effective defense as skaven? Against the AI it was easy but humans dont make such mistakes.

I can delay them but it attrites me away slowly, and it gives total time control to my opponent.

[bogh]

I tend to play "passive agressive" defense with Skaven (though with squishy opponents, e.g. goblins and elves, I'll try and dominate them);

Always keep an empty square between your rats and the opponent. By deploying in two ranks and placing your guys right, he'll only be able to move one square forward. In your turn, use selected blocks and dodges to free up players in opposing tackle zones. Remember that your opponent can only blitz one guy per turn, so you can limit him to one block many turns. Use your tacke zones to limit his movement and link the tackle zones, so taking out one guy won't really open anything up.

Always place a few rats up field, to retain the threat of immediate scoring on a turnover. This also makes it a lot harder for your opponent to cover the ball carrier, often forcing him to proceed down the sidelines, rather than through the middle - and the sides are a lot easier for you to block, using the tactics above.

If he sends catchers down your backfield, make sure to place one tackle zone on each catcher and use your blitz to bring one down. You basically need to slow him down long enough to force him to take chances - and roll dice. Don't worry about the clock - you can easily score in two or three turns. If you can keep your guys alive, you'll almost always win - or at least draw.

Apart from keeping your guys out of the fight and slowing his advance, your focus should be only on the ballcarrier. Your blitzes and blocks should focus on;

1. Grabbing the ball
2. Putting a tackle zone on the ball carrier
3. Freeing up your guys by pushing away opponents and bringing down forward catchers etc.

Whenever you can block the ball carrier, do so. Don't take any chances - except when a chance to block the carrier arises. Then go all in, dodge into tacklezones and make 1 dice blocks (or even 2 dice against if you have Block-skill). Build your gutter runners as ball retrievers - dauntless, horns, strip ball, block, tackle, wrestle etc. are all good skills. Those little fellas can managed the most amazing takedowns and zoom away with the ball afterwards.

If you can block the carrier, block his guards (and always look out for an opportunity to chain push the carrier out of his pocket) and put a tacklezone on the carrier. If you can place your guy next to the carrier with no other opponent adjacent, you have forced him to use his blitz to free the carrier - and that means he can't dent your defense wall.

Other good skills for breaking up a solid cage are sidestep, leap (though it's too risky in my book), stand firm and jump up - most of these help you avoid being continually pushed back and can often help put a rat next to his ball carrier.

Just my two cents - but I was never an expert - and I am pretty rusty these days. As mentioned, different opponents need different tactics - against lizards, I'd avoid saurii and put a tackle zone on skinks whenever possible. Your skill choices also define how you should play - I tend to be very ball oriented, focusing entirely on getting the ball loose and not to much on bashing the opponent down.

I'd be up for a game or a tournament BTW.

[Tamas]

Thank you! This is what has been forming in my mind, but described very well.

My biggest problem is indeed the cage. Often, when I think to have found a chance to break through and get at the carrier, my massed rats end up bogged down in a brawl and decimated. Will keep practicing (against humans, the AI is utterly incapable to pose a similar challenge)

[Tamas]

OMFG had my most frustrating Skaven game to date. Good thing the opponent was a nice guy at least we had a good chat.

So my 1200ish skaven played against 1300ish Chaos. I kicked off the game. He, positioned his left side into a concentrated bunch, had the other side more loose. So I kicked toward the latter. Changing weather event put the ball into the hands of a chaos guy in the middle of that concentrated bunch, so he had a 3/4 formed cage right behind the LOS at the very first turn... Then he killed a linerat in the trench, but thats something to live with.

And then hilarity ensued because he managed to lose, due to bad rolls, like 2 or 3 of his players in the first half, and an other one in the second.


YET I COULD NOT GRAB THE BALL THE WHOLE GAME. NOT EVEN ONCE. NIL ZERO SUCCESSFUL PICKUP ATTEMPTS. I HAD TO ROLL FUCKING TWOS FOR FUCKS SAKE!!!
THE ONE TIME I HAVE MORE PLAYERS ON FIELD THAN A CHAOS TEAM AND I CANT GRAB THE GODDAMN BALL

[The Brain]

[Tamas]

And why the hell is everyone playing Orc and Chaos? Seriously, I haven't MPed against anything else yet.

[Syt]

Oddly, those would be my favorite teams. Anything else is too squishy. Dwarves are ok, but too slow.

[Tamas]

Yes but I prefer quicker, passing teams. been checking dark elves, and I suck at countering stronger teams, frankly.

I understand the concept of delaying them and forcing them to make mistakes so I can force a tunrover but in practice I have very few ideas how to do that. I can pull off nice and quick counterattacks when they do offer me the chance but I must admit that usually it's because of the other coach burning through his rerolls unnecessarily which eventually gives me the chance. So usually I just bleed off the pitch one by one as I try to delay and then rush the ballcarrier when given some chance.

BTW, there is a 16 team leauge called "BC-Div3" forming, I just applied, the guy announcing it wanted people who play daily, so I guess one match a day is enough for him. I have just applied, so if anyone wants to be in my leauge and get victories agaisnt my squeaky dark elves, go ahead.

[bogh]

I generally always play squishy teams - never really cared to much for bashing teams.

Bleeding to death is a fact of playing a squishy team. You'll win often, but keeping your team alive is a struggle. The bashing teams generally have poor ball handling, so pick ups and hand offs are problematic. If you can force your opponent into these, it'll burn his RRs and give you the chance. But there certainly a lot of luck and player mistakes involved.

One game a day is waaay to ambitious for me. Wouldn't mind playing a bit of MP against some languishites, though.

[Syt]

Chaos Edition has been released - bringing teams up to 23 (added Chaos Dwarves, Underworld and Daemons of Khorne). If you register your old player key on Steam you get the game for €10.- instead of €29.99.

[Tamas]

Thanks Syt, bought it for the tenner, going to try it this weekend.

I woud make a vague attempt to try a Languish mini-league going with this game again, but why bother.

[Syt]

God, I'm rusty at this. Started a campaign as Daemons of Khorne. Lost my first match 2-0 against a Skaven team (strategy: 1. hurt them as much as possible; 2. pick up ball if possible). I injured three of their players, but they killed one and injured another of mine. I DON'T HAVE THE MONEY FOR THIS!

[Tamas]

Yeah I gave it a brief try and discovered that I am way, WAY out of practice. By the time I started to remember things the AI was all over me. And even when I trounced the AI without blinking an eye in the past (all too easy, sadly), I was decimated in the online league I played.

[katmai]

Thanks Syt, bought it for the tenner, going to try it this weekend.

I woud make a vague attempt to try a Languish mini-league going with this game again, but why bother.

i have to find where I bought it from. (Gamers gate if i recall correctly) as it was on my lost HD.