Jury Duty

[grumbler]

What I didn't say is that most of the time I've encountered police, they seem like posturing assholes.

And you didn't like the competition.   

Can you give him a few pointers on how to tolerate such competition better?

The only pointer I could give him is "don't follow DGuller's lead."  I don't know enough about the topic to do more than point out some bad examples.

[garbon]

I meant people who get their opinions of police from the real world, not from television and movies.

Oddly, I often like cops on television (Law & Order, Southland, etc.).

[grumbler]

oh... I don't know...  maybe it's the constant lying, the cops caught faking evidences, those who turn murderers, rapists or drug dealers... just maybe these little things of no consequences.

So, you don't like people. 

there's also the matter of cops protecting themselves as if they were gang members, the fact that they are following orders to arrest speeding drivers instead of real criminals, etc, etc.

So, you don't like organization. 

None of this is unique to police.

[DGuller]

there's also the matter of cops protecting themselves as if they were gang members

That's my biggest problem with cops, although I generally don't have problems with them.  The majority of cops seem to have some glaring blindspots when it comes to ethics.  They seem incapable of realizing that "professional courtesy" on traffic stops, blue wall of silence, or selectively using their discretion are all corrupt practices.  They also adopt the "us vs. them" mentality that justifies those practices, and often all citizens go into the "them" column.  Maybe the job makes you jaded like that, but it doesn't look good.

[DGuller]

I meant people who get their opinions of police from the real world, not from television and movies.

Oddly, I often like cops on television (Law & Order, Southland, etc.).

Yeah, I wasn't sure what Beeb was talking about.  On TV, the cops are rarely portrayed negatively, and even the questionable practices are often presented as the only common sense option, if they are at all.

[Eddie Teach]

I meant people who get their opinions of police from the real world, not from television and movies.

The times I've dealt with cops they've been obnoxious, stupid, and/or humorless.

[garbon]

The times I've dealt with cops they've been obnoxious, stupid, and/or humorless.

[DGuller]

I've had two contacts with police in my life.  Once when I was mugged, and once when I was pulled over for speeding.  Ironically, the NJ state trooper who pulled me over was considerably more courteous and professional than most (but not all) of the Jersey City cops I dealt with after my mugging.

[frunk]

Hmm, the police I've encountered have certainly been humorless, but then I wasn't trying to crack them up.  They've all been professional, some were courteous, none of them were obnoxious or stupid (that I could tell).

[Neil]

Is it so unreasonable for police to have an 'us vs. them' mentality?

[Barrister]

That's my biggest problem with cops, although I generally don't have problems with them.  The majority of cops seem to have some glaring blindspots when it comes to ethics.  They seem incapable of realizing that "professional courtesy" on traffic stops, blue wall of silence, or selectively using their discretion are all corrupt practices.  They also adopt the "us vs. them" mentality that justifies those practices, and often all citizens go into the "them" column.  Maybe the job makes you jaded like that, but it doesn't look good.

Really - those are your biggest complaint?  That they use discretion on laying charges?  I'd hate to see police without some level of discretion.

Professional courtesy on traffic stops?  Yeah, that's just terrible.  Just awful.

And blue wall of silence?  What can I say - I've nevr seen it.  I've done opinion files on questions of police misconduct before, and I've always found the investigations were done with full professionalism.

[DGuller]

Really - those are your biggest complaint?  That they use discretion on laying charges?  I'd hate to see police without some level of discretion.

Not the use of discretion, abuse of it.  Abuse of discretion can be a pretty awful thing, especially when coupled with laws that are widely broken and are essentially unenforceable.  A lot of cops don't even think that discretion can ever be abused.

Professional courtesy on traffic stops?  Yeah, that's just terrible.  Just awful.

There are a couple of things wrong with it.  First, on general level, it's a bad thing to have two different standards, one for regular serfs, and one for badged nobility.  Second of all, here in NJ, there were a couple of cases where cops, or relatives of cops, were given "professional courtesy" when they were drunk behind the wheel, and some time later proceeded to kill innocent people.

[Barrister]

There are a couple of things wrong with it.  First, on general level, it's a bad thing to have two different standards, one for regular serfs, and one for badged nobility.  Second of all, here in NJ, there were a couple of cases where cops, or relatives of cops, were given "professional courtesy" when they were drunk behind the wheel, and some time later proceeded to kill innocent people.

Badged nobility.

Agreed that any crime should not be given a pass.  I know of one incident where the police did not investigate when another officer appeared to be driving drunk, and all kinds of hell broke out for those involved.

But for a speeding ticket?  Puh-leeze.

[DGuller]

But for a speeding ticket?  Puh-leeze.

So you see nothing wrong with a certain segment of population being given a free pass to speed as they please, while others would be getting a ticket and a lecture for doing the same thing?

[Barrister]

But for a speeding ticket?  Puh-leeze.

So you see nothing wrong with a certain segment of population being given a free pass to speed as they please, while others would be getting a ticket and a lecture for doing the same thing?

It's not a "free pass".  If one cop waves a badge and says "I'm a cop, you can't ticket me", he'll get both a ticket and serious discipline from his superior.

And what you don't understand is that for a police officer, getting a ticket is a lot more serious than it would be for you.  They'll have to report it up the chain.  An outside judge will have to be brought in.  You could proably negotiate down a ticket - a cop wouldn't have that ability.