11 dead in French satirical magazine shooting

[garbon]

I don't know, I think it's a basic test of being able to function in society.  If what someone says, no matter what it is, is considered justification to kill then you don't make the cut.  As horrible as this tragedy is it's better to have agitators like CH then to stay quiet and build up a thin skinned population that is likely to become extremely dangerous on a flimsy pretext.

What proof do we have that having agitators prevents this thin skinned population?

Because social exposure to something increases tolerance to it. That's the entire premise behind LGBT movement, for example.

In the case of the LGBT movement, social exposure is used as a way of combating negative preconceived notions that people may hold of gay people. It uses the premise that if people see more out, gay people (more that are their family and friends), they are more likely to see how gay people are similar to them and less likely to hold onto simplistic views like gay people are disgusting perverts (Neil notwithstanding).

I don't see how that would work in the case of these cartoons, as it seems to me that repeated exposure would just confirm perceptions that they are puerile and offensive (with little to redeem them).

Also, as an aside, I don't really think we want people making more shitty cartoons.

[DGuller]

What's the issue here?

Cynical people don't actually know what crowds look like from above.

Typically they don't look like a hundred bigwigs who are cordoned off from the masses by security.

And nothing suggests that the bigwigs thought it looked like they walked with the rest of the masses as they walked a completely different route. Besides there were aerial cams that filmed it all live so there really is no issue.

Yeah, seriously, did anyone think that dozens of world leaders would just be let out into a crowd?  Complaining about such photo-ops is like complaining that German officers in American movies speak accented English.  Yeah, they would speak German in real life, but in real life they wouldn't let anyone film them while they discussed secret evil plans.

[Martinus]

Specially for Ed Anger: Daily Mail:

Moroccan-born mayor of Rotterdam tells fellow Muslims who do not appreciate the 'freedoms' of living in the West to 'pack your bags and f*** off' on live TV

The Moroccan-born mayor of Rotterdam has said Muslim immigrants who do not appreciate the way of life in Western civilisations can 'f*** off'.

Ahmed Aboutaleb, who arrived in the Netherlands aged 15, spoke out in the wake of the Charlie Hebdo attack in Paris last week.

Appearing on live television just hours after the shootings, Mayor Aboutaleb said Muslims who 'do not like freedom can pack your bags and leave'.

Labour politician Ahmed Aboutaleb, a former journalist who was appointed mayor of the Dutch city in 2008, is known for his straight-forward stance on integration.

The 53-year-old won the praise of London-mayor Boris Johnson over his comments last week, attacking fellow Muslims who move to Western nations and refuse to accept the way of life.

'It is incomprehensible that you can turn against freedom,' Mayor Aboutaleb told Dutch current affairs program Nieuwsuur (Newshour).

'But if you don't like freedom, for heaven's sake pack your bags and leave.

'If you do not like it here because some humorists you don't like are making a newspaper, may I then say you can f*** off.

This is stupid, this so incomprehensible.  Vanish from the Netherlands if you cannot find your place here. All those well-meaning Muslims here will now be stared at'.



















'My hero': London Mayor Boris Johnson said Aboutaleb was 'straight to the point'

Mayor Aboutaleb grew up the son of an imam in northern Morocco, but moved to the Netherlands in 1976.

After working as a reporter he became a civil servant before being appointed State Secretary for Social Affairs and Employment in 2007.

When he was appointed mayor of Rotterdam, the second largest city in the country with a population of more than 610,000, he became the first immigrant in such a position in the Netherlands.

Mayor Aboutaleb, who represents the Dutch Labour Party, de Partij van de Arbeid, has long had a no-nonsense approach to immigration and integration.

Speaking to the Observer shortly after his appointment he said his message to immigrants is 'stop seeing yourself as victims, and if you don't want to integrate, leave'.

This week, London Mayor Boris Johnson hailed Mayor Aboutaleb as his 'hero'  and 'straight to the point'.

'That is the voice of the Enlightenment, of Voltaire,' Mr Johnson wrote in the Daily Telegraph.

'If we are going to win the struggle for the minds of these young people, then that is the kind of voice we need to hear - and it needs above all to be a Muslim voice.'

[Admiral Yi]

[CountDeMoney]

Specially for Ed Anger: Daily Mail:

The next question is:  which football jersey to get?  Sparta, Feyenoord or Excelsior?

[Richard Hakluyt]

Well said Mr Mayor 

[Ed Anger]

Specially for Ed Anger: Daily Mail:

The next question is:  which football jersey to get?  Sparta, Feyenoord or Excelsior?

FC Twente

[Martinus]

He is just an Uncle Tom.

[CountDeMoney]

FC Twente

That ain't Rotterdam.

[Ed Anger]

FC Twente

That ain't Rotterdam.

It is too early for me to do research. So I picked the dutch club that has an partnership with the Dayton Dutch Lions.

[Siege]

In defense of B4, what is so outrageous about suggesting that the editors of Charlie have some responsibility here?  They knew they were taking a baseball bat to a hornet's nest.  They and the French government knew there was a chance something would happen.  That is why more protection was provided to them.  That protection failed. I defend Charlie's right to make the decision to take the risk and publish anyway.  I applaud the decision of the French government to try to provide more protection for Charlie rather than banning the publication.  But to suggest that Charlie's decision to publish didn't contribute to what occurred is simply ignoring the facts.

Why are we having this discussion?
It is ok to be critical and even blasphemous of christians and jews, but not ok of doing the same about muslims because they would come and... kill you?

Freedom of religion does not include forcing people to observe whatever religion you happen to follow. How ridicoulous would be of me to force everybody in Languish to circuncise and observe Shabbat, but is it ok to force people to have special treatment for Mohammed?

How many movies are out there that show mohammed?

[Martinus]

In defense of B4, what is so outrageous about suggesting that the editors of Charlie have some responsibility here?  They knew they were taking a baseball bat to a hornet's nest.  They and the French government knew there was a chance something would happen.  That is why more protection was provided to them.  That protection failed. I defend Charlie's right to make the decision to take the risk and publish anyway.  I applaud the decision of the French government to try to provide more protection for Charlie rather than banning the publication.  But to suggest that Charlie's decision to publish didn't contribute to what occurred is simply ignoring the facts.

Why are we having this discussion?
It is ok to be critical and even blasphemous of christians and jews, but not ok of doing the same about muslims because they would come and... kill you?

Freedom of religion does not include forcing people to observe whatever religion you happen to follow. How ridicoulous would be of me to force everybody in Languish to circuncise and observe Shabbat, but is it ok to force people to have special treatment for Mohammed?

How many movies are out there that show mohammed?

[Siege]

Bottom line, freedom of religion includes freedom FROM religion.
Muslims have no right to force their observance of Mohammed on the rest of us.

[11B4V]

What's the issue here?

[crazy canuck]

Why are we having this discussion?

Because people get to talk about thing which even you disagree with.