Revolution a distant memory as Egypt escalates repression

[Admiral Yi]

How, exactly, do you target the lack of democracy?  Elect your own governing body that no one will listen to?

You hold big rallies in places where your presence won't inconvenience others unduly.

The counterargument to this in the past has been "but then no one will pay any attention."

The rebuttal to that is occupying the roads has gotten everyone's attention and it has turned public opinion against the protesters' agenda.

Lunch counter owners that won't serve blacks and municipal bus companies that force blacks to the back are the bad guys.  Go ahead and inconvenience them.  The owners of fishball and noodle restaurants are not the bad guys.

[garbon]

We both know that civil disobedience is not as simple as that.  Black people in the South who sat at the front of the bus broke the law as well. 

Right, it's not about breaking the law when the law is shit. It's about hurting innocent bystanders. Sitting in the front of the bus hurts nobody.

You've said this several times but I think that stance is bullshit. Sometimes innocent bystanders must be inconvenienced - particularly if their apathy and attempts to "sit this one out" are what help the oppressive conditions to continue.

Sure.  You know what, by blocking major crossroads for over 70 days, the rioters have successfully improved the popularity of the HK government, and decreased their own ratings.  Close to two million out of a population of seven million have signed petitions to get the roads back.  People are rightly pissed off about their antics 

Oh, I don't really need you to respond to me. Thanks.

[garbon]

How, exactly, do you target the lack of democracy?  Elect your own governing body that no one will listen to?

You hold big rallies in places where your presence won't inconvenience others unduly.

The counterargument to this in the past has been "but then no one will pay any attention."

The rebuttal to that is occupying the roads has gotten everyone's attention and it has turned public opinion against the protesters' agenda.

Lunch counter owners that won't serve blacks and municipal bus companies that force blacks to the back are the bad guys.  Go ahead and inconvenience them.  The owners of fishball and noodle restaurants are not the bad guys.

What proof would you offer that holding rallies in places that did not unduly burden others would have made a difference?

[Admiral Yi]

What proof would you offer that holding rallies in places that did not unduly burden others would have made a difference?

What do you mean by "make a difference?"  Bring full democracy to Hong Kong?  Topple the Communist Party from power in China?

[Ideologue]

All I want is us to stop trading with slave states.  When they enact a minimum wage, then the PRC can join the community of non-shitty nations.  Currently occupied by Sweden, Norway, and Denmark, who long ago ran out of things to talk about.

China has minimum wage 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_minimum_wages_in_People%27s_Republic_of_China

I meant "our," not "a."  My mistake.  Apologies.

[The Brain]

If you hate the communist government in China so much, then go to Tian An Men yourself and protest against it.  Stop trying to tell me to do it, because I am not interested

That wasn't exactly an answer to my question.  I'm quite confident that the PRC will fall.  Probably sooner then North Korea's will.  When a country goes through transition, like say increasing the standard of living for the average Joe it tends to lead to disruption and eventual collapse.  I imagine you'll see it in your life time.  I don't hate the communist government, if I did I would be like Seedy or Ide, and want my government to intervene.

All I want is us to stop trading with slave states.  When they enact a minimum wage, then the PRC can join the community of non-shitty nations.  Currently occupied by Sweden, Norway, and Denmark, who long ago ran out of things to talk about.

Sweden doesn't have a minimum wage and we're still on the non-shitty list.

[Ideologue]

DARN it.

[Syt]

All I want is us to stop trading with slave states.  When they enact a minimum wage, then the PRC can join the community of non-shitty nations.  Currently occupied by Sweden, Norway, and Denmark, who long ago ran out of things to talk about.

By this definition Germany is a slave state.

Germany recently introduced a minimum wage.

[Martinus]

Really? I thought it has been a thing for many years in most Western countries.

[Razgovory]

If you hate the communist government in China so much, then go to Tian An Men yourself and protest against it.  Stop trying to tell me to do it, because I am not interested

That wasn't exactly an answer to my question.  I'm quite confident that the PRC will fall.  Probably sooner then North Korea's will.  When a country goes through transition, like say increasing the standard of living for the average Joe it tends to lead to disruption and eventual collapse.  I imagine you'll see it in your life time.  I don't hate the communist government, if I did I would be like Seedy or Ide, and want my government to intervene.

/shrug.  People have been predicting the fall of the PRC since the Great Leap Forward, the Cultural Revolution, the death of Mao, and Tian An Men.  Hasn't happened yet.  Meanwhile, we still need to make a living.  Not sure how your theory makes any difference to me.  So I should prepare for this...event that may or may not happen in the next 30 years by doing what?

Can you name an existing dictatorship that maintained power for 100 years?  But you are probably right.  Bureaucrats in Communist states usually have nothing to fear.

[Monoriu]

Can you name an existing dictatorship that maintained power for 100 years?  But you are probably right.  Bureaucrats in Communist states usually have nothing to fear.

I have never claimed there is an existing dictatorship that has maintained power for 100 years, or that they last forever, so I don't feel obliged to answer your question.  So you keep predicting that the PRC will fall.  My question is, so what? 

[Zanza]

Really? I thought it has been a thing for many years in most Western countries.

In central and northern European countries you often have institutions that allow collective bargaining between unions and employers for entire sectors of industry. You'll find that this way of organizing society with non-state public institutions is widespread in many policy areas.

Those collective bargaining agreements used to cover most workers and a minimum wage set by the state was thus just not necessary. Beyond setting an absolute minimum, it's questionable if our state may even influence wages as our constitution guarantees non-interference in collective bargaining.

[frunk]

You hold big rallies in places where your presence won't inconvenience others unduly.

The counterargument to this in the past has been "but then no one will pay any attention."

The rebuttal to that is occupying the roads has gotten everyone's attention and it has turned public opinion against the protesters' agenda.

Lunch counter owners that won't serve blacks and municipal bus companies that force blacks to the back are the bad guys.  Go ahead and inconvenience them.  The owners of fishball and noodle restaurants are not the bad guys.

How does this"target the lack of democracy" in the same sense that a sit in would at a racist store?

[Syt]

Besides, with welfare payments you have a de facto minimum wage, anyways, because employers will have to offer more than that to fill in vacancies.

[Razgovory]

Can you name an existing dictatorship that maintained power for 100 years?  But you are probably right.  Bureaucrats in Communist states usually have nothing to fear.

I have never claimed there is an existing dictatorship that has maintained power for 100 years, or that they last forever, so I don't feel obliged to answer your question.  So you keep predicting that the PRC will fall.  My question is, so what?

Your argument was that it would be a huge gamble to try bring down the regime.  Since it will likely fall in our lifetimes, the gamble doesn't seem so great.  There will be a revolution perhaps sooner then you think.  The Recent events in the Arab world have shown how fragile these governments are.  The question i, where do you want to be and what do you want to do about it?