Erdogan: Muslims discovered America in 12th century

[The Brain]

Which kind of neighbors is it that everybody needs?

[Malthus]

Not totally hostile. Initially they weren't hostile. However it did go pearshaped pretty damn quickly since the indians had a habit of borrowing metal tools without asking and the vikings had the habit of killing thieves. iirc They spent two summers there and then left as indian raiding grew more insistent. Remember, they only had two ships and were at most 60 people. The the choice was send off 30 to try and get help or just return to greenland.

The Viking explorers sound like they made very bad neighbours. Local natives very quickly took to a 'shoot on sight' policy.

Hell, didn't one group of them murder off another, when they found the other group squatting in their longhouse? I guess having a whole new continent wasn't big enough for the both of them. 

No, the settlement was carried out by one homestead lead by one chief. The norse were perfectly happy to murder each other regularly, but here, this was not the case.

And, yes, Vikings were very very very very bad neighbors.

I'm thinking of this passage from the "Saga of the Greenlanders":

Freydis Eiriksottir, the daughter of Eirik, proposed a voyage with the brothers Helgi and Finnbogi to travel to Vinland together and share the profits fifty-fifty. After the brothers agreed to the proposal, Freydis turned to her brother Leif because she wished to have the housing he built in Vinland. Leif said she may borrow them, but she could not have them for herself.

The agreement between Freydis and Helgi and Finnbogi was that each could have no more than 30 men on board and then women as well. This agreement was made to ensure that neither side had an unfair advantage against the other, but Freydis quickly double crossed her partners and brought along 5 extra men.

Upon arrival at Vinland, the brothers arrived slightly earlier and unloaded their belongings into Leif's house. When Freydis realized what they had done she immediately made them remove their things and so the brothers built their own longhouse. After a winter of small disputes, Freydis arose early one morning to go speak with the brothers. Finnbogi was the only one awake and he stepped out to hear what Freydis had to say.

Finnbogi explained his dislike for the ill feelings between their two parties and hoped to clear the air with Freydis. She agreed and offered a trade. The brothers wanted to stay in Vinland, but Freydis was ready to go back home; she suggested they trade ships since the brothers had a much larger one than she did and it would be of better use bringing back her people and her half of the profits. Finnbogi agreed to this and the two parted.

Once Freydis returned home, her cold, wet feet awoke her husband, Thorvard. He asks where she has been and she spins a tale much different from the actual events that took place. She says she offered to buy the brother's ship but they became angry and struck her. Freydis then continued to manipulate her husband till he agreed to avenge her. If he hadn't she threatened divorce.

Thorvard took his men and began tying up all the men from the other camp in a sneak attack while they were still sleeping. Freydis had each man killed on the spot if they belonged to Finnbogi and Helgi's crew. Soon only the 5 women were left alive, but no man would dare kill them. In response Freydis says, "Hand me an axe." She made quick work of slaying the women and she became very pleased with how well her morning had gone. She told all involved that anyone who speaks a word of the events would be killed. The plan was to say that the brothers chose to stay behind in Vinland while Freydis returned to Greenland.

Once back home, Freydis returned to the farm and was sure that her crew was well rewarded for the trip to Vinland in order to keep them quiet about her dastardly deeds. Eventually though, Leif caught wind of what had happened and he was furious. He predicted, "that their descendants will not get on well in this world."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Saga_of_the_Greenlanders

[Siege]

Was Freydis hott?
Did she cheat on Thorvard with Finnbogi, and then convinced Thorvard to kill Finnbogi to hide the deed?

[Malthus]

Was Freydis hott?
Did she cheat on Thorvard with Finnbogi, and then convinced Thorvard to kill Finnbogi to hide the deed?

Apparently, she not only personally slaughtered five women with an axe - she also scared off a bunch of attacking natives by slapping a sword against her bare breasts (that, after the men had all run off).

Freydis came out and saw how they were retreating. She called out, "Why run you away from such worthless creatures, stout men that ye are, when, as seems to me likely, you might slaughter them like so many cattle? Let me but have a weapon, I think I could fight better than any of you." They gave no heed to what she said. Freydis endeavoured to accompany them, still she soon lagged behind, because she was not well; she went after them into the wood, and the Skrælingar directed their pursuit after her. She came upon a dead man; Thorbrand, Snorri's son, with a flat stone fixed in his head; his sword lay beside him, so she took it up and prepared to defend herself therewith.

Then came the Skrælingar upon her. She let down her sark and struck her breast with the naked sword. At this they were frightened, rushed off to their boats, and fled away. Karlsefni and the rest came up to her and praised her zeal. (Trans. J. Sephton)

Not a lady you want to cross, methinks! 


Edit: she was just carrying on the family tradition - her dad got himself kicked out of Norway for being 'too violent', moved to Iceland - and got himself kicked out of Iceland for being too violent!

He was too violent for other Vikings.

[Norgy]

And you wonder why the Nordic countries have been so far ahead in women's lib.

[Caliga]

Wasn't Erik a murderer, and twice declared an outlaw (once in Norway and once in Iceland) for killings?

[Valmy]

An army back then was any large group of people on an military mission.
Cortez had 500 dudes and a little cannon.
I would call that an army. Definitively an expeditionary force, though that term would be ahistorical for the times.

They were not soldiers though, just a bunch of Europeans from various locales who came together to seek their fortune.  Cortes was certainly no general.  He was an attorney and politician though which was probably a good thing to be in the tangled political situation he walked into.

[Malthus]

Wasn't Erik a murderer, and twice declared an outlaw (once in Norway and once in Iceland) for killings?

Yup. As I said - the daughter was just carrying on the family traditions. 

It just isn't too surprising that they did not get along with the locals in Newfoundland - even other Vikings couldn't stand them!

[KRonn]

Nice gal to bring home to meet the parents, and settle down with for a nice, quiet, peaceful life....