Sino-American Climate Deal?

[Sheilbh]

Well if there's no force then the best way is what I've said: economic growth, women's education and lib.

But the hard core greens I know - the zero growth type - are not terribly keen on that.

[mongers]

Well if there's no force then the best way is what I've said: economic growth, women's education and lib.

But the hard core greens I know - the zero growth type - are not terribly keen on that.

I don't have a great deal of time for ideologues. 

[Jacob]

I'm not missing anything. Who said it should be imposed on others?

I guess the other alternative is to make a bargain that links the West cutting CO2 emissions and India and China focusing on economic growth, womens education, and health services - leading to lower birthrates. But I'm not sure how popular that type of bargain is going to be.

[Sheilbh]

Well if there's no force then the best way is what I've said: economic growth, women's education and lib.

But the hard core greens I know - the zero growth type - are not terribly keen on that.

I don't have a great deal of time for ideologues.

Oh they're lovely people. But then they start worrying about how old we'll live and all the kids we're having

More troublesome is that these ideas are in the Green Party who most people seem to think of as cuddly alternatives to the Lib Dems.

[mongers]

Well if there's no force then the best way is what I've said: economic growth, women's education and lib.

But the hard core greens I know - the zero growth type - are not terribly keen on that.

I don't have a great deal of time for ideologues.

Oh they're lovely people. But then they start worrying about how old we'll live and all the kids we're having

More troublesome is that these ideas are in the Green Party who most people seem to think of as cuddly alternatives to the Lib Dems.

Well, the implacable opposition to nuclear energy, a jinni  already out of the bottle, at a time when all pragmatic approaches need to be tried, is just silly and makes me want to run a mile from them.

[Admiral Yi]

I guess the other alternative is to make a bargain that links the West cutting CO2 emissions and India and China focusing on economic growth, womens education, and health services - leading to lower birthrates. But I'm not sure how popular that type of bargain is going to be.

Surely there must be alternatives other than these two.

[Jacob]

I guess the other alternative is to make a bargain that links the West cutting CO2 emissions and India and China focusing on economic growth, womens education, and health services - leading to lower birthrates. But I'm not sure how popular that type of bargain is going to be.

Surely there must be alternatives other than these two.

Surely. Any suggestions?

[Razgovory]

We could simply convince people it's not a problem and ignore it.

[mongers]

I guess the other alternative is to make a bargain that links the West cutting CO2 emissions and India and China focusing on economic growth, womens education, and health services - leading to lower birthrates. But I'm not sure how popular that type of bargain is going to be.

Surely there must be alternatives other than these two.

Surely. Any suggestions?

What about each of us paying for the CO2 to be captured that we've been responsible for releasing during our adult lives?

My estimate is a average Brit of my age has been responsible for more than 330* tonnes of C02 released into the atmosphere, since the age of 18 years.

Which you could imagine as the equivalent of a small wood of 18 or 19 english oak trees** growing to maturity over the course of 220 years.
That's how much they'd sequestrate over those centuries.




* This is an intentional underestimate as it's based only on primary energy consumption by each country, which ignores the effects of export/import of goods, represents only CO2, CO2e including other green house gases might be 20-25% higher.  Oh and because I've yet to get comprehensive historical age breakdowns by age for each country, the figures are actually per capita rather than for each adult at any particular point in time.

** 24 metres high and each comprising the equivalent of 18.2tonnes of CO2

[Admiral Yi]

That would be fair.  Everyone pays for every bit of carbon they release.

[Maximus]

Nothing to do with that as you know - and it can be done environmentally, just look at Scandinavia or Scotland.

I'm pretty sure Canada could save a fair amount of money (and CO2) by implementing insulation standards in buildings equivalent to those they have in Scandinavia.

Maybe further north, but last time I looked it up(which admittedly may be 10 years ago now) the Canadian standard had something like 4 times the insulation value of the Danish requirements. I had this argument with KC4 back in the day. The Danish requirement was approximately the equivalent of the Canadian standard if you took out the insulation.

Edit: According to this site it's only slightly better now. http://www.paroc.dk/Knowhow/Building-regulations/Danish-Building-regulations-in-accordance-to-BR-10?sc_lang=en

[CountDeMoney]

We could simply convince people it's not a problem and ignore it.

The greatest hoax ever perpetrated on the American people. 

[Jacob]

Nothing to do with that as you know - and it can be done environmentally, just look at Scandinavia or Scotland.

I'm pretty sure Canada could save a fair amount of money (and CO2) by implementing insulation standards in buildings equivalent to those they have in Scandinavia.

Maybe further north, but last time I looked it up(which admittedly may be 10 years ago now) the Canadian standard had something like 4 times the insulation value of the Danish requirements. I had this argument with KC4 back in the day. The Danish requirement was approximately the equivalent of the Canadian standard if you took out the insulation.

Edit: According to this site it's only slightly better now. http://www.paroc.dk/Knowhow/Building-regulations/Danish-Building-regulations-in-accordance-to-BR-10?sc_lang=en

I stand corrected then. I never knew drywall + a layer of paper + some sort of cladding was that effective insulation.

[mongers]

That would be fair.  Everyone pays for every bit of carbon they release.

For the average person of my age in these countries that would be:

United Kingdom - 333 tonnes
Germany - 392 t
France - 237 t
China - 114 t
India - 30 t
USA - 709 t
Bangladesh - 8.3 t

[Admiral Yi]

I'm on board mongers.  Write up the treaty.