News:

And we're back!

Main Menu

Was the American Civil War inevitible?

Started by jimmy olsen, October 30, 2014, 01:21:38 AM

Previous topic - Next topic

Assuming no changes earlier than 1815, was the American Civil War inevitable?

Yes
14 (58.3%)
No
10 (41.7%)

Total Members Voted: 24

jimmy olsen

Assuming no changes earlier than 1815, was the American Civil War inevitable?

I say no. Gradual manumission in Virgina was plausible, and if that legislation had passed in the 1830s then Delaware, Maryland and Kentucky would have followed. Without Virginia and Kentucky beholden to the Deep South on the slavery issue they have no hope in congress or on the battlefield.
It is far better for the truth to tear my flesh to pieces, then for my soul to wander through darkness in eternal damnation.

Jet: So what kind of woman is she? What's Julia like?
Faye: Ordinary. The kind of beautiful, dangerous ordinary that you just can't leave alone.
Jet: I see.
Faye: Like an angel from the underworld. Or a devil from Paradise.
--------------------------------------------
1 Karma Chameleon point

Razgovory

Every book I've read on the US has the civil war occurring, so yeah, I think so.
I've given it serious thought. I must scorn the ways of my family, and seek a Japanese woman to yield me my progeny. He shall live in the lands of the east, and be well tutored in his sacred trust to weave the best traditions of Japan and the Sacred South together, until such time as he (or, indeed his house, which will periodically require infusion of both Southern and Japanese bloodlines of note) can deliver to the South it's independence, either in this world or in space.  -Lettow April of 2011

Raz is right. -MadImmortalMan March of 2017

Eddie Teach

I don't think it was inevitable at any time before the war with Mexico.
To sleep, perchance to dream. But in that sleep of death, what dreams may come?

jimmy olsen

Quote from: Razgovory on October 30, 2014, 01:31:31 AM
Every book I've read on the US has the civil war occurring, so yeah, I think so.
So you're a determinist?

Do you believe in free will?
It is far better for the truth to tear my flesh to pieces, then for my soul to wander through darkness in eternal damnation.

Jet: So what kind of woman is she? What's Julia like?
Faye: Ordinary. The kind of beautiful, dangerous ordinary that you just can't leave alone.
Jet: I see.
Faye: Like an angel from the underworld. Or a devil from Paradise.
--------------------------------------------
1 Karma Chameleon point

mongers

It was a necessary precursor to the internet wars of 1994-2014.
"We have it in our power to begin the world over again"

grumbler

Quote from: jimmy olsen on October 30, 2014, 01:49:10 AM
Do you believe in free will?
We must believe in free will; we have no choice.   -Isaac Bashevis Singer
The future is all around us, waiting, in moments of transition, to be born in moments of revelation. No one knows the shape of that future or where it will take us. We know only that it is always born in pain.   -G'Kar

Bayraktar!

Viking

To the question in the OP. I think the Compromise of 1850 made the war inevitable. From that point on Slavery became part of the identity of certain states. Maintaining slavery became an implied obligation.
First Maxim - "There are only two amounts, too few and enough."
First Corollary - "You cannot have too many soldiers, only too few supplies."
Second Maxim - "Be willing to exchange a bad idea for a good one."
Second Corollary - "You can only be wrong or agree with me."

A terrorist which starts a slaughter quoting Locke, Burke and Mill has completely missed the point.
The fact remains that the only person or group to applaud the Norway massacre are random Islamists.

Lettow77

 Even past 1850, you could always just let the slave states go in peace.
It can't be helped...We'll have to use 'that'

Neil

Quote from: Viking on October 30, 2014, 06:53:18 AM
To the question in the OP. I think the Compromise of 1850 made the war inevitable. From that point on Slavery became part of the identity of certain states. Maintaining slavery became an implied obligation.
I think that's reasonable.  It also allowed the Northern states to cleanse themselves of the taint of slavery, which was psychologically important to them.  Of course, then they turned around and exterminated and imprisoned all of the Indian population between the coasts, so it turns out that it really didn't matter.
I do not hate you, nor do I love you, but you are made out of atoms which I can use for something else.

Viking

Quote from: Lettow77 on October 30, 2014, 07:58:40 AM
Even past 1850, you could always just let the slave states go in peace.

unpossible - slavery is an abomination and the institution must be exterminated
First Maxim - "There are only two amounts, too few and enough."
First Corollary - "You cannot have too many soldiers, only too few supplies."
Second Maxim - "Be willing to exchange a bad idea for a good one."
Second Corollary - "You can only be wrong or agree with me."

A terrorist which starts a slaughter quoting Locke, Burke and Mill has completely missed the point.
The fact remains that the only person or group to applaud the Norway massacre are random Islamists.

Lettow77

But presumably not in Brazil or anywhere like that- specifically, slavery is an abomination in Tennessee and must be exterminated, right?
It can't be helped...We'll have to use 'that'

Neil

Quote from: Lettow77 on October 30, 2014, 08:08:33 AM
But presumably not in Brazil or anywhere like that- specifically, slavery is an abomination in Tennessee and must be exterminated, right?
We start with that which we know.

That's the beauty of the internet.  It allows to know about so many more abominations to get riled up about.
I do not hate you, nor do I love you, but you are made out of atoms which I can use for something else.

MadImmortalMan

Slavery ending was inevitable, but the war was not.
"Stability is destabilizing." --Hyman Minsky

"Complacency can be a self-denying prophecy."
"We have nothing to fear but lack of fear itself." --Larry Summers

Viking

Quote from: Lettow77 on October 30, 2014, 08:08:33 AM
But presumably not in Brazil or anywhere like that- specifically, slavery is an abomination in Tennessee and must be exterminated, right?

You are aware that Brazil abolished slavery on it's own? In the decade after the US Civil War.
First Maxim - "There are only two amounts, too few and enough."
First Corollary - "You cannot have too many soldiers, only too few supplies."
Second Maxim - "Be willing to exchange a bad idea for a good one."
Second Corollary - "You can only be wrong or agree with me."

A terrorist which starts a slaughter quoting Locke, Burke and Mill has completely missed the point.
The fact remains that the only person or group to applaud the Norway massacre are random Islamists.

Lettow77

 That can't be. I don't remember hearing tell of the Union army conducting any prolonged invasions in the area, which would obviously be the indispensable precursor to any sort of abolishment of slavery.
It can't be helped...We'll have to use 'that'