Berkely students petition to stop Bill Maher from delivering commencement addres

[The Brain]

They're not treated as gospel though.

[Jacob]

I think Yi probably went too far when he tries to compare conquest in Islam to marxism (really, it's a tortured analogy that  should not have been attempted), but the point still stands - there is an emphasis of jihad and struggle against nonbelievers in Islam that has no comparable notion in Christianity.

Yeah, I don't think there's a Christian equivalent to the Muslim concept of crusading, right?

There's nothing in the Bible about Crusading.

In fact the word is never used.

https://www.biblegateway.com/quicksearch/?quicksearch=crusade&qs_version=NIV

"Not appearing in the bible" is somewhat different from " no comparable notion in Christianity" which was your initial claim.

[Valmy]

Christianity, which has a long history of conquest and forced conversion.

To be fair, by now it has a long history of basically every single conceivable thing possible.

[Barrister]

I think Yi probably went too far when he tries to compare conquest in Islam to marxism (really, it's a tortured analogy that  should not have been attempted), but the point still stands - there is an emphasis of jihad and struggle against nonbelievers in Islam that has no comparable notion in Christianity.

Yeah, I don't think there's a Christian equivalent to the Muslim concept of crusading, right?

There's nothing in the Bible about Crusading.

In fact the word is never used.

https://www.biblegateway.com/quicksearch/?quicksearch=crusade&qs_version=NIV

"Not appearing in the bible" is somewhat different from " no comparable notion in Christianity" which was your initial claim.

Then I cheerfully correct my claim.  Replace Koran for Islam, and Bible for Christianity.

[garbon]

Christianity, which has a long history of conquest and forced conversion.

To be fair, by now it has a long history of basically every single conceivable thing possible.

I can think of several things that it doesn't have a long history of.

[Valmy]

"Not appearing in the bible" is somewhat different from " no comparable notion in Christianity" which was your initial claim.

Again if we are going to include everything that has happened in a Christian country as part of Christianity I wonder if anything is not part of Christianity.  I mean we do have hundreds of nations over nearly 2000 years here.

[Valmy]

Christianity, which has a long history of conquest and forced conversion.

To be fair, by now it has a long history of basically every single conceivable thing possible.

I can think of several things that it doesn't have a long history of.

Typically a statement like this includes an example.

[Malthus]

I think Yi probably went too far when he tries to compare conquest in Islam to marxism (really, it's a tortured analogy that  should not have been attempted), but the point still stands - there is an emphasis of jihad and struggle against nonbelievers in Islam that has no comparable notion in Christianity.

Yeah, I don't think there's a Christian equivalent to the Muslim concept of crusading, right?

There's nothing in the Bible about Crusading.

In fact the word is never used.

https://www.biblegateway.com/quicksearch/?quicksearch=crusade&qs_version=NIV

"Not appearing in the bible" is somewhat different from " no comparable notion in Christianity" which was your initial claim.

Then I cheerfully correct my claim.  Replace Koran for Islam, and Bible for Christianity.

The Christian Bible includes the Old Testament - plenty of support for militancy there. Just label your enemies as modern-day Amalakites and have at them. 

[garbon]

Christianity, which has a long history of conquest and forced conversion.

To be fair, by now it has a long history of basically every single conceivable thing possible.

I can think of several things that it doesn't have a long history of.

Typically a statement like this includes an example.

Sure. How supportive has Christianity been of homosexual relations/unions? I don't think an appeal to some tepid acceptance by Episcopalian church would compare to say the Crusades/Reconquista as example of militant Christianity.

[Barrister]

I wonder what's so controversial about the notion that different religions with different Holy Books might influence their believers in different ways.

I think Yi probably went too far when he tries to compare conquest in Islam to marxism (really, it's a tortured analogy that  should not have been attempted), but the point still stands - there is an emphasis of jihad and struggle against nonbelievers in Islam that has no comparable notion in Christianity.

That doesn't mean that Muslims are inherently violent, or that Christians are inherently peaceful, but there is a difference there.

I guess the counter-observation is that the details of theology don't seem to translate or map into differences in actual practice - Jesus meek and mild, turn-the-other-cheek stuff is all very well, but Christianity isn't really notable for its pacifism.

Also, present-day sects notable for pacifism and good works often had a very violent and fanatic past, without much change in actual doctrine.

Who could be more harmless than the Mennonites?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/M%C3%BCnster_Rebellion

What about the Aga Khan? All he does is fund charities and stuff. 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Assassins

I think history has shown us that sadly people will tend to do whatever they want, no matter what their faith and religion tells them to do.  Christians and Muslims (and Buddhists, Hindus and the rest) have much more in common than they have differences because of their faiths.

But around the edges I continue to think the point still stands.  There is a difference between the teachings of the Bible, and of the Koran, and the teachings of the Koran have a noticeable more sympathy and endorsement or war and struggle.

[The Minsky Moment]

Christianity, which has a long history of conquest and forced conversion.

To be fair, by now it has a long history of basically every single conceivable thing possible.

Yes quite so.  And Islam is no different.  After a millennium or so any broad-based comprehensive social construct will have gathered enough baggage and commentary that just about any set of ideas can be hung onto it.  And so our present day fundamentalists can take their radically anachronistic hermeneutics and their present-day political hangups and project them back on some imagined view of a timeless Islamic past.

[The Brain]

Christianity, which has a long history of conquest and forced conversion.

To be fair, by now it has a long history of basically every single conceivable thing possible.

I can think of several things that it doesn't have a long history of.

Typically a statement like this includes an example.

Sure. How supportive has Christianity been of homosexual relations/unions? I don't think an appeal to some tepid acceptance by Episcopalian church would compare to say the Crusades/Reconquista as example of militant Christianity.

You're fucking kidding us, right? You may have heard about a little something called the Catholic Church?

[Eddie Teach]

There's a long history of priests and nuns having homosexual relationships.

And Valmy's statement was about things that could be associated with Christianity, not specifically with any official policy.

[Valmy]

Christianity, which has a long history of conquest and forced conversion.

To be fair, by now it has a long history of basically every single conceivable thing possible.

I can think of several things that it doesn't have a long history of.

Typically a statement like this includes an example.

Sure. How supportive has Christianity been of homosexual relations/unions?

Very.  Many churches have been completely behind these things.  Many decades before this became mainstream.  Like...you know...mine.

I don't think an appeal to some tepid acceptance by Episcopalian church would compare to say the Crusades/Reconquista as example of militant Christianity.

I guess I do not understand what this means.  I said everything has happened in the name of Christianity or has been done by Christians.  I did not say that they all are equally sexy in the historical sense.  Obviously the Reconquista is more interesting than being gay friendly or helping Lepers or whatever.

[Barrister]

There is nothing remotely similar in the teachings of Jesus as recounted in the Gospels.  Exactly the opposite as a matter of fact.

Not so:

Do not suppose that I have come to bring peace to the earth. I did not come to bring peace, but a sword.

The Gospels are full of dire threats of death and destruction to be visited in the those who do not accept the teachings of Jesus.

That's not what that phrase means.  It's part of a call to the disciples to go out and preach his teachings.  He warns that it will not be easy, that families will be turned against each other, but that their ultimate reward will be with God.

Jesus' teachings are that what happens on this earth does NOT matter.  The Kingdom of God will not be established on earth, but rather in heaven.