Soldier shot at National War Memorial in Ottawa

[grumbler]

the classic political correct answer. Refusing to accept what the problem is when it's kicking you in the shins, just because the origin of the issue is a religion/ideology.

As an aside:
it's not bigotry to say that the perps and ISIS-scum base their actions on the core handbook of islam.

The problem is that every "core handbook" has creeps and scum who base their actions on it.  The creeps and scum from the Hindu terrorists; the Confucian creeps and scum who bound women's feet in China; the Christian creeps and scum who mutilate their girls in Africa; the Orthodox creeps and scum who murdered Jews in the pogroms; the Catholic creeps and scum who ran the Inquisition or the Protestant creeps and scum that ran its protestant counterparts; the Marxist creeps and scum who ran the KGB or Cheka; Pol Pot's boys; on, and on, and on.

The problem is the creeps and scum, not the handbooks.

[Neil]

All religions are pretty stupid guys.

They usually mellow out with time, that's all.

I don't think that's exactly fair.  Religion was an attempt to explain the universe at a time before the scientific materialism of the Enlightenment took hold.  Moreover, it is an extremely useful tool for maintaining a social order, especially one with enormous inequalities.  Sure, religious faith in this day and age is a little bit backwards, but even now it still serves a purpose.  Even in the First World, there are plenty of people for whom the empty purposelessness of modern life is filled by religious faith.

If we want to eliminate religion, we're going to have to provide something more compelling than wageslavery.

[frunk]

The best way to have 100 million enemies is to treat 100 million people as if they are your enemy, rather than the 1 million that actually are.

[Admiral Yi]

The best way to have 100 million enemies is to treat 100 million people as if they are your enemy, rather than the 1 million that actually are.

I don't see anyone doing that in this thread, with the possible exception of Grallon.

[Razgovory]

I'll take the non-answer as a "no".  You don't actually talk to Muslims about what they believe, you just read anti-Muslim screeds.

I'm know a broken record but we really should stop talking to Viking about religion.

If his knowledge his of Islam is like his knowledge of Christianity then it's pretty fucking dismal.  I have a strong feeling that his arguments come from the books and articles of anti-Muslim yahoos.  It's like reading Der Sturmmer to get an idea what Jews believe (Viking mentioned Nazis, so I can as well).  His Nazi analogy fell flat because "Islam" isn't a distinct national group like "German".  It is a religion and more broadly a civilization.  A better comparison would be perhaps "Christendom", or better yet "Western civilization".  Of course making the same argument that Millions of Westerners weren't camp guards but were millions were NSDAP members results in the absurd notion Western Civilization is bad because radical members of it formed Nazism and Communism and all sorts of nasty things.  Likewise saying Islam is bad because some radicals have done bad things is just as absurd.

[Barrister]

Would you guys please stop shitting on a thread about a terrorist attack on my nation's capital?

[frunk]

I don't see anyone doing that in this thread, with the possible exception of Grallon.

Million of germans weren't concentration camp guards but millions were NSDAP members. You don't need 100s of millions to make life a living hell for a country you just need thousands. The 100s of millions are the sea in which those thousands of fish swim. The 100s of millions are the ones who don't want to blow themselves up on a school bus, but thinks that it is good that somebody does. The 100s of millions are the ones that teach their kids to believe that the book which tells them to hate and fight the infidel is true and good.

It's a BS argument to say that less than X% of muslims are radicalized murderous nutjobs when the number X is larger than the membership of the NSDAP. The crusades only needed a small percentile active nutjobs to cause mahem. It also needed the "100s of millions" equivalent to make that percentile possible.

[Admiral Yi]

I don't see anyone doing that in this thread, with the possible exception of Grallon.

Million of germans weren't concentration camp guards but millions were NSDAP members. You don't need 100s of millions to make life a living hell for a country you just need thousands. The 100s of millions are the sea in which those thousands of fish swim. The 100s of millions are the ones who don't want to blow themselves up on a school bus, but thinks that it is good that somebody does. The 100s of millions are the ones that teach their kids to believe that the book which tells them to hate and fight the infidel is true and good.

It's a BS argument to say that less than X% of muslims are radicalized murderous nutjobs when the number X is larger than the membership of the NSDAP. The crusades only needed a small percentile active nutjobs to cause mahem. It also needed the "100s of millions" equivalent to make that percentile possible.

If pointing out the violent, psychotic, and dysfunctional nature of someone's religion turns that person into your enemy, perhaps that's further proof of the violent, psychotic, and dysfunctional nature of that religion.

[Neil]

Would you guys please stop shitting on a thread about a terrorist attack on my nation's capital?

It's my country too.

Besides, if we break from our routine of shitting up threads, the terrorists win.

[Ancient Demon]

If pointing out the violent, psychotic, and dysfunctional nature of someone's religion turns that person into your enemy, perhaps that's further proof of the violent, psychotic, and dysfunctional nature of that religion.

Agreed. The difference between extremists and "moderates" isn't usually that different when it comes to Islam. More a matter of means than ends really.

[Razgovory]

I don't see anyone doing that in this thread, with the possible exception of Grallon.

Million of germans weren't concentration camp guards but millions were NSDAP members. You don't need 100s of millions to make life a living hell for a country you just need thousands. The 100s of millions are the sea in which those thousands of fish swim. The 100s of millions are the ones who don't want to blow themselves up on a school bus, but thinks that it is good that somebody does. The 100s of millions are the ones that teach their kids to believe that the book which tells them to hate and fight the infidel is true and good.

It's a BS argument to say that less than X% of muslims are radicalized murderous nutjobs when the number X is larger than the membership of the NSDAP. The crusades only needed a small percentile active nutjobs to cause mahem. It also needed the "100s of millions" equivalent to make that percentile possible.

If pointing out the violent, psychotic, and dysfunctional nature of someone's religion turns that person into your enemy, perhaps that's further proof of the violent, psychotic, and dysfunctional nature of that religion.

I get a lot of flak if I criticize libertarianism.  I wonder if that's because I'm right.

[Valmy]

I get a lot of flak if I criticize libertarianism.  I wonder if that's because I'm right.

I would say the insane anarchism you criticize is probably fit to be criticized.

[Valmy]

If pointing out the violent, psychotic, and dysfunctional nature of someone's religion turns that person into your enemy, perhaps that's further proof of the violent, psychotic, and dysfunctional nature of that religion.

Agreed. The difference between extremists and "moderates" isn't usually that different when it comes to Islam. More a matter of means than ends really.

Yeah well we do not really care about their ends, just their means.  If their means include being good productive citizens then whatever their vile ends may be I will take it.

[Razgovory]

I get a lot of flak if I criticize libertarianism.  I wonder if that's because I'm right.

I would say the insane anarchism you criticize is probably fit to be criticized.

What does it say about those who gave me flak?

[Admiral Yi]