Soldier shot at National War Memorial in Ottawa

[Viking]

I don't see anyone doing that in this thread, with the possible exception of Grallon.

Million of germans weren't concentration camp guards but millions were NSDAP members. You don't need 100s of millions to make life a living hell for a country you just need thousands. The 100s of millions are the sea in which those thousands of fish swim. The 100s of millions are the ones who don't want to blow themselves up on a school bus, but thinks that it is good that somebody does. The 100s of millions are the ones that teach their kids to believe that the book which tells them to hate and fight the infidel is true and good.

It's a BS argument to say that less than X% of muslims are radicalized murderous nutjobs when the number X is larger than the membership of the NSDAP. The crusades only needed a small percentile active nutjobs to cause mahem. It also needed the "100s of millions" equivalent to make that percentile possible.

If pointing out the violent, psychotic, and dysfunctional nature of someone's religion turns that person into your enemy, perhaps that's further proof of the violent, psychotic, and dysfunctional nature of that religion.

I just note that people aren't trying to defend the position of "no the 100s of millions don't hold ideas which in the hands of literalist fanatics leader to evil". Furthermore the idea that we should not express an honest opinion of the underlying ideas, values, ethics, laws and commands within islam on the grounds that the people who love these ideas will be angry if  we say so is silly, dishonest and ultimately self defeating.

[Viking]

CrazyIvan seems to be leaning in this way too.  And also Viking.

Where has Viking said anything about treatment?

So far I have only suggested saying that their religion is untrue and that it's teachings are immoral and it's consequences are harmful. Which is incidentally the same recipe I have for all other religions.

We should absolutely definitively not be lying to ourselves in the hope that believing it will make it so.

The 100s of millions are saying that Mohammed was a moral example to be followed that God's revelation in the Quran is good and perfect. Many of them will riot if we say anything else. The problem is that Mohammed did evil (as I defined earlier) and the Quran either permits or commands evil. If we can say this and formulate policy with this understanding then nothing we do will ever work. 

[Grallon]

Agreed. The difference between extremists and "moderates" isn't usually that different when it comes to Islam. More a matter of means than ends really.

Think of Muslims and Islam as pigs at a trough; while 9 out 10 will be docile creatures and only one will be vicious - they all greedily lap the same slop.



G.

[Viking]

Agreed. The difference between extremists and "moderates" isn't usually that different when it comes to Islam. More a matter of means than ends really.

Think of Muslims and Islam as pigs at a trough; while 9 out 10 will be docile creatures and only one will be vicious - they all greedily lap the same slop.



G.

One of the reasons I despise the religion is Islam is that it's scripture compares certain people to pigs (or claims they are pigs depending on which "interpretation" you use). If you want to maintain the moral high ground avoid sinking to their level.

[garbon]

Would you guys please stop shitting on a thread about a terrorist attack on my nation's capital?

It's Languish.org, it's what they do.

Far from "shitting on a thread" this thread shows how Canadians have generally responded to the attack.  The only Canadian here who has advocated for treating Muslims as the Other is Grallon.  No need to say more on that point 

To my knowledge no Canadian politician of any stripe has done so.  We understand that the vast majority of Muslims are peaceful, productive and positive members of our communities.  We also understand that there is a radical element of Islam in the world that needs to be dealt with.  But we Canadians are generally smart enough not to confuse one group with the other.   

I think our response to the attack was best captured by the speech Mulcair gave in the House yesterday in which he made the point that while security was important for Parliament it should still remain a place where the public was welcome.  His point was that we should not give in to terror by closing ourselves off.  He was speaking about our society as much as he was about Parliament.  He received applause from everyone in the House for his comments and politicians of every stripe have echoed his words. 

We will not go down the path of treating our Muslim community as the Other. On Languish we sometimes have debates about what it is to be Canadian.  That is what it means to be Canadian.   

I don't know. Do you think Canadian politicians if say instead of just one Candian soldier killed, say it was terrorist attack taking place in Canada that killed several hundred Canadians?

[crazy canuck]

Would you guys please stop shitting on a thread about a terrorist attack on my nation's capital?

It's Languish.org, it's what they do.

Far from "shitting on a thread" this thread shows how Canadians have generally responded to the attack.  The only Canadian here who has advocated for treating Muslims as the Other is Grallon.  No need to say more on that point 

To my knowledge no Canadian politician of any stripe has done so.  We understand that the vast majority of Muslims are peaceful, productive and positive members of our communities.  We also understand that there is a radical element of Islam in the world that needs to be dealt with.  But we Canadians are generally smart enough not to confuse one group with the other.   

I think our response to the attack was best captured by the speech Mulcair gave in the House yesterday in which he made the point that while security was important for Parliament it should still remain a place where the public was welcome.  His point was that we should not give in to terror by closing ourselves off.  He was speaking about our society as much as he was about Parliament.  He received applause from everyone in the House for his comments and politicians of every stripe have echoed his words. 

We will not go down the path of treating our Muslim community as the Other. On Languish we sometimes have debates about what it is to be Canadian.  That is what it means to be Canadian.   

I don't know. Do you think Canadian politicians if say instead of just one Candian soldier killed, say it was terrorist attack taking place in Canada that killed several hundred Canadians?

We have had two separate attacks within a day of eachother.  The second attack could have resulted in many deaths if it had been timed better.  One would think that would be ample opportunity for a politician to take the Grallon/Viking/Crazy Ivan approach.

[Grallon]

One of the reasons I despise the religion is Islam is that it's scripture compares certain people to pigs (or claims they are pigs depending on which "interpretation" you use). If you want to maintain the moral high ground avoid sinking to their level.

I don't have that pretension Viking.  I leave that to the others here who like nothing so much as strut about and posture about their moral superiority.  I judge people by their deeds not by the verbal diarrhea they spew to justify whatever it is they're advocating.  And in this case I know I'm right.  All I need to do is open a paper or the TV or a net channel to see what Muslims and Islam are about.

Are they all bloodthirsty murderers?  Of course not.  I know and work with and like several of them.  But then again those are mostly like us - Muslim in name only like I'm a Catholic in name only - not wearing a hidjab, not really practicing except for the odd ritual here and there like a bit of Ramadan, a Christmas mass or a baptism.  However like the North-American natives with alcohol they're all susceptible to the effects of the death cult they grew up with. 

Which is what you've tried explaining to the gaggle of peacocks parading in this thread but they are far to enamored with the  patterns of their own rhetoric to see or hear anything else.



G.

[Neil]

All religions are pretty stupid guys.

They usually mellow out with time, that's all.

I don't think that's exactly fair.  Religion was an attempt to explain the universe at a time before the scientific materialism of the Enlightenment took hold.  Moreover, it is an extremely useful tool for maintaining a social order, especially one with enormous inequalities.  Sure, religious faith in this day and age is a little bit backwards, but even now it still serves a purpose.  Even in the First World, there are plenty of people for whom the empty purposelessness of modern life is filled by religious faith.

If we want to eliminate religion, we're going to have to provide something more compelling than wageslavery.

Yeah, Socialism

I don't know.  Socialism might be useful as an economic tonic (and I'm sure that would be helpful), but it really doesn't do anything to address the social bonds between people, which have been broken now for some time.  Closing somewhat (although not entirely) the gap in lifestyle between the lucky few and the unlucky multitudes would help create commonality, but something more is needed to turn them into a society.

After all, the European social democracies are having an even harder time with religion than we are.

[viper37]

Whether it is causation or correlation (most muslims in Europe are first or second generation immigrants from shitholes with abysmal cultures), the fact remains that Muslims more than any other religious group in Europe are responsible for a disproportionate amount of hate crimes (whether against Jews, gays or women, frequently originating from their own communities). This is a problem we need to address. I am not saying kill them all or send them all back - but we need to recognise the fact instead of hiding behind multiculti bullshit and start actively assimilating Muslim immigrants by curbing the ability to practice their backwards customs (such as wearing a hijab in a public place) and not allowing them to bring in hate clerics to "educate" their children.

that's not the same as targetting all muslims, targetting Islam as an "evil religion" while other Faith would be strickly peaceful.

[viper37]

I think our response to the attack was best captured by the speech Mulcair gave in the House yesterday in which he made the point that while security was important for Parliament it should still remain a place where the public was welcome.  His point was that we should not give in to terror by closing ourselves off.  He was speaking about our society as much as he was about Parliament.  He received applause from everyone in the House for his comments and politicians of every stripe have echoed his words. 

Like BB said, having armed security agents and metal detectors wouldn't be so bad, yet it would add security to the building.

[viper37]

About the gun: Winchester model 94

The shooter couldn't legally obtain gun, so the RCMP is tracking where it came from.

[Jacob]

Far from "shitting on a thread" this thread shows how Canadians have generally responded to the attack.  The only Canadian here who has advocated for treating Muslims as the Other is Grallon.  No need to say more on that point 

To my knowledge no Canadian politician of any stripe has done so.  We understand that the vast majority of Muslims are peaceful, productive and positive members of our communities.  We also understand that there is a radical element of Islam in the world that needs to be dealt with.  But we Canadians are generally smart enough not to confuse one group with the other.   

I think our response to the attack was best captured by the speech Mulcair gave in the House yesterday in which he made the point that while security was important for Parliament it should still remain a place where the public was welcome.  His point was that we should not give in to terror by closing ourselves off.  He was speaking about our society as much as he was about Parliament.  He received applause from everyone in the House for his comments and politicians of every stripe have echoed his words. 

We will not go down the path of treating our Muslim community as the Other. On Languish we sometimes have debates about what it is to be Canadian.  That is what it means to be Canadian. 

And for those of you not familiar with Canadian politics, Mulcair is the leader of the NDP. CC praising him is like Spicy praising Obama - pretty rare.

[viper37]

Yellow powder in Canadian, German and Belgian consulate of Istanbul.

[Syt]

The shot soldier's dogs are waiting for him to come home.

[Admiral Yi]