Incest a 'fundamental right', German committee says

[viper37]

"Criminal law is not the appropriate means to preserve a social taboo."

It is if the taboo is really, really gross.

And why should the state decide what adults* want to do in their bedroom?
We may find it disgusting, but lots of things are.  Or I think they are, according to my own tastes.  There's no way I'd have a girl shit on me, and I wouldn't even bang one of my step sisters, but if some people like that, why not?

It's not like everyone having sex with the possibility of procreation is apt to have children.  And I don't think the sterilization of particular groups is a valid option.  I'm not even sure it should be a valid practice for some individuals, though maybe for some extreme cases, but even then, it still seems arbitrary.



*Adults here, as in people above the age of consent, whatever that is in their locality.

[viper37]

Bosses sleeping with employees is a matter for disciplinary procedures within a company,

It varies from company to company.  I have no such rule here.  But I don't dig guys either, so not a problem.

and students sleeping with (adult) students a matter of disciplinary proceedings within the school or university;

Not in Quebec for sure.  Not unless you do it in class, but then it's not the relationship that cause problems

similarly, a lawyer sleeping with clients is a matter for the relevant law society's code of ethics.

The lawyer is supposed to be impartial toward his client.  I suspect you could not represent your wife, i.e., it's not just a matter of who you sleep with or not.  And it applies only to this specific context.  You could very well be part of your wife's legal team but you could not represent her in the tribunal.

Certainly, there will be cases in which it will be clear that there is no actual improper influence. There is in all those other cases, as well. The reason for the prohibition (agree with it or not) is that the risk of abuse in the ordinary case is so great as to outweigh the injustice done in those admittedly rather rare cases in which siblings raised apart wish to have sex with each other. 

There can be various form of abuses, and just about any case outside of incest relationships could have these same abuses.
Think of financial domination, psychological abuse, violence, etc,
Not all of these cases are punishable by law.

In short, the case for reversing the current onus (the relatonship is presumptively prohibited) is weak because the exceptions are unusual and the risk of harm in the usual case is great.

But all of this can exists for any relationship.  Many relationships are unhealthy.

[viper37]

Pedophilia laws suffer from the very same issues - the "age of consent" is essentially arbitrary (and in fact varies from jurisdiction to jurisdiction) and there will be people on the wrong side of it who clearly *do* have the ability to give fully informed and "capable" consent/choice. We keep Pedophilia laws on the books because in general the risk of harm is too great and so the (undoubted) impairment to liberty is "worth it".

and you could have the exact opposite too: people above the age of consent but who clearly do not have the ability to give fully informed and "capable" consent/choice.  And the same goes for any legal contract, btw.  We've all seen people who don't really understand what they are consenting to.

[Ideologue]

Viper, Mal could easily represent his wife. Lawyers arw not "impartial."

[The Brain]

A man who represents his wife has a fool for a client.

[Barrister]

Viper, Mal could easily represent his wife. Lawyers arw not "impartial."

WHile I don't think it's strictly forbidden, it's generally seen as being a very poor idea. 

[crazy canuck]

Bosses sleeping with employees is a matter for disciplinary procedures within a company, and students sleeping with (adult) students a matter of disciplinary proceedings within the school or university; similarly, a lawyer sleeping with clients is a matter for the relevant law society's code of ethics.

You are mistaken.   A boss or superior may have a consensual relationship with a subordinate employee.  All such relationships are not presumbed to be improper and indeed many such workplace relationships do exist without incident.  Similarily I know of no policies which prohibit sex between between adult students at university or appropriately ages high school students.  I have no idea where you are getting that from.  I am not clear about the rules regarding lawyers and their clients.  Never had to turn my mind to it.  But I do know that it is not always unethical.  I know a few lawyers who are happily married to people who were their clients.

[derspiess]

And why should the state decide what adults* want to do in their bedroom?

In most cases it shouldn't.  But in this one it should.

[crazy canuck]

The lawyer is supposed to be impartial toward his client.  I suspect you could not represent your wife, i.e., it's not just a matter of who you sleep with or not.  And it applies only to this specific context.  You could very well be part of your wife's legal team but you could not represent her in the tribunal.

I dont think impartial was the word you were looking for.  A lawyer is supposed to be completely partial to their client's interest.  The only restriction on representing a family member is that it voids the lawyer's bar insurance - a good policy choice for obvious reasons.

[garbon]

And why should the state decide what adults* want to do in their bedroom?

In most cases it shouldn't.  But in this one it should.

Why?

[derspiess]

And why should the state decide what adults* want to do in their bedroom?

In most cases it shouldn't.  But in this one it should.

Why?

Because I said so.

[Berkut]

And why should the state decide what adults* want to do in their bedroom?

In most cases it shouldn't.  But in this one it should.

Why?

Because I said so.

You and Beebs have the exact same argument.

[jimmy olsen]

Bosses sleeping with employees is a matter for disciplinary procedures within a company, and students sleeping with (adult) students a matter of disciplinary proceedings within the school or university; similarly, a lawyer sleeping with clients is a matter for the relevant law society's code of ethics.

The problem with incest, of course, is that there is no such administrative body or code of ethics that would be applicable. Only the criminal law

Pretty sure a high school teacher sleeping with an adult student is illegal in every U.S. state.

[Tonitrus]

I doubt it, if the student is over 18.  I am pretty sure it is not in Washington state (I am sure it would administratively forbidden, sure, and the teacher would be canned).

Though Washington has a "sexual misconduct with a minor" law, that would put a teacher in jail for being involved with a student under 18, though still over the age of consent at 16.

[Barrister]

And why should the state decide what adults* want to do in their bedroom?

In most cases it shouldn't.  But in this one it should.

Why?

Because I said so.

You and Beebs have the exact same argument.

Pretty sure I didn't actually make any argument...