Columbia student carrying mattress until school expels her rapist

[garbon]

I am not sure what I said that is particularly funny.

Also, she was actually one of the 23 students that lodged this federal complaint about the University's handling of sexual assault claims.

http://www.cnn.com/2014/04/25/us/columbia-university-sexual-assault-complaint/

[Razgovory]

Well the cop in that Al-J article said he had to bully the girl because he gets 20 to one fake accusations. And the girl said she didn't want to report the rape to the cops because they would bully her. Sounds exactly like false claims making it hard for the victims.

The cop said no such thing in the AJ article.  Sulkowicz's friends claimed that he said that.  I don't put a lot of cred in the claim, because it fits too neatly into the narrative she is creating to justify not doing the right thing the first time, and doesn't sound like something a cop would actually say.  Twenty-to-one accusations to convictions is credible; twenty-to-one false accusations to real is not.

I think those statements come from recordings the she made.

[crazy canuck]

I am not sure what I said that is particularly funny.

Also, she was actually one of the 23 students that lodged this federal complaint about the University's handling of sexual assault claims.

http://www.cnn.com/2014/04/25/us/columbia-university-sexual-assault-complaint/

I am still dont understand what you found funny.

But in relation to the news article I have two observations.

First, the fact that she has filed this proceeding doesn't answer my question.  If the hearing was as flawed as she suggests why didnt she apply for a judicial review.

Second, the fact that there was an internal decision against her would probably be a very strong defence for the University to the complaint now being filed.  This isnt a case of the University failing in its duty.  This is a case of the complainent not liking the decision, claiming it was flawed in some way but then not taking any steps to have it set aside.  The only reasonable explanation I can think of is that the US doesnt have the same procedural safeguards as we do in Canada - a proposition I find hard to accept.

[grumbler]

...If the hearing was as flawed as she suggests why didnt she apply for a judicial review.

Second, the fact that there was an internal decision against her would probably be a very strong defence for the University to the complaint now being filed.  This isnt a case of the University failing in its duty.  This is a case of the complainent not liking the decision, claiming it was flawed in some way but then not taking any steps to have it set aside.  The only reasonable explanation I can think of is that the US doesnt have the same procedural safeguards as we do in Canada - a proposition I find hard to accept.

I'm not sure what you mean by "judicial review" here.  The courts in the US do not typically have any power to review administrative rulings of universities.  The student can sue for denial of rights if the school doesn't follow its procedures, or the procedures aren't in accordance with law, but someone accused of cheating, or accusing someone of non-criminal sexual misconduct, doesn't have a right to a court hearing over the outcome of the administrative hearing, insofar as I know.

[crazy canuck]

...If the hearing was as flawed as she suggests why didnt she apply for a judicial review.

Second, the fact that there was an internal decision against her would probably be a very strong defence for the University to the complaint now being filed.  This isnt a case of the University failing in its duty.  This is a case of the complainent not liking the decision, claiming it was flawed in some way but then not taking any steps to have it set aside.  The only reasonable explanation I can think of is that the US doesnt have the same procedural safeguards as we do in Canada - a proposition I find hard to accept.

I'm not sure what you mean by "judicial review" here.  The courts in the US do not typically have any power to review administrative rulings of universities.  The student can sue for denial of rights if the school doesn't follow its procedures, or the procedures aren't in accordance with law, but someone accused of cheating, or accusing someone of non-criminal sexual misconduct, doesn't have a right to a court hearing over the outcome of the administrative hearing, insofar as I know.

I would be interested in the answer to that from one of the American law talkers.

Here any final administrative decision is subject to review by the Courts.  If the decision is made pursuant to a statutory power then the process of review is governed by the various provincial Judicial Review Procedure Acts.   This would be the route for most administrative decisions made in Canadian Universities since they are mainly created by and derive their powers from a statue.  Back in the day a fair amount of my practice was defending Universities from these sorts of applications.  I assume most State Universities in the US are the same.  In the case of private institutions judicial reviews are still available pursuant to the common law principles of administrative law which are a bit arcane but still usable.

[MadImmortalMan]

Columbia is a private school.


Edit: I don't see how any judicial review would have any right or jurisdiction to intervene in the administrative decisions of any private entity, whether it's a school, corporation, club, union or whathaveyou.

[crazy canuck]

Columbia is a private school.


Edit: I don't see how any judicial review would have any right or jurisdiction to intervene in the administrative decisions of any private entity, whether it's a school, corporation, club, union or whathaveyou.

Yes, so they would not be exercising a statutory power of decision.  But in Canada that is not the end of the question.  If you had continued to read my post you would have noticed that I said "In the case of private institutions judicial reviews are still available pursuant to the common law principles of administrative law which are a bit arcane but still usable."

I am interested to know if similar judicial review remedies are available in the US. 

edit: by the way your edit was too broad.  For example despite what the USSC has recently said,  corporations are still creatures of statute and most of those statutes give jurisdiction to the Courts for a variety of forms of review.

[garbon]

I am not sure what I said that is particularly funny.

Also, she was actually one of the 23 students that lodged this federal complaint about the University's handling of sexual assault claims.

http://www.cnn.com/2014/04/25/us/columbia-university-sexual-assault-complaint/

I am still dont understand what you found funny.

It's just so typical of you to come in with your lawyer bravado of well this is how it works in Canada, I've no idea how it works in the US, but if it is sensibly the same, then here's my judgment.

[crazy canuck]

I am not sure what I said that is particularly funny.

Also, she was actually one of the 23 students that lodged this federal complaint about the University's handling of sexual assault claims.

http://www.cnn.com/2014/04/25/us/columbia-university-sexual-assault-complaint/

I am still dont understand what you found funny.

It's just so typical of you to come in with your lawyer bravado of well this is how it works in Canada, I've no idea how it works in the US, but if it is sensibly the same, then here's my judgment.

It doesnt seem sensible to you that a country that has a close connection to British legal traditions would have a system of administrative review similar to those found in other countries with the same legal tradition?

[Razgovory]

garbon makes a good point, she could be getting a degree in something that would lead her to get a job in Market Research and thus really can't be trusted until that issue is cleared up.

[Tonitrus]

I find it rather silly that the school administration thought it proper to have some kind of panel or "tribunal" in the first place.  The most sensible university policy to one of their students making a claim of rape(or any crime) by another student would be to immediately refer the matter to the appropriate criminal jurisdiction.

School administrators holding some kind of "panel" to determine if a rape happened or not, seems rather inappropriate to me.

[jimmy olsen]

Do you believe her claim?

I don't see any reason not to.

Do you believe her?

  After an investigation, the case was reviewed by the competent tribunal, and the preponderance of evidence was found to be on the side of the accused.  After a review by the school dean of students, the finding was confirmed.  You are saying the guy was lying and the investigators, tribunal, and dean were all incompetent.  What reason do you find for this belief?

I can believe her and at the same time believe that the investigators, tribunal and dean were all competent people who made the appropriate decision. Regardless of whether a credible claim was made that claim must be provable by evidence for action to be taken against the perpetrator. Unfortunately, in most rape cases there is little to no concrete evidence.

[Tonitrus]

I dunno, if you have a member of the tribunal asking questions like "dur, how can you even do anal without lubricant?", that doesn't sound very competent to me.  That sounds like a clown college court.

As I said, the idea of the college even thinking that having an administrative "tribunal" to decide a serious criminal issue such as rape is preposterous.  If a coworker at General Motors rapes you, you don't have the Board of Directors take witness statements and come up with a ruling.

[CdM] You just fire everybody involved instead. [/CdM] 

[CountDeMoney]

I dunno, if you have a member of the tribunal asking questions like "dur, how can you even do anal without lubricant?", that doesn't sound very competent to me.  That sounds like a clown college court.

It's a valid question.    Riding bareback may be OK with you, but I chafe.

[garbon]

I dunno, if you have a member of the tribunal asking questions like "dur, how can you even do anal without lubricant?", that doesn't sound very competent to me.  That sounds like a clown college court.

It's a valid question.    Riding bareback may be OK with you, but I chafe.

It isn't really a valid question when think about a rape.