Columbia student carrying mattress until school expels her rapist

[Malthus]

A rational reason for lodging an accusation against this particular person with the university could very easily be personal dislike of this person, with whom we know she was, at one point, she was having a sexual relationship. Lots of people who break up do so in ways leaving one party or another with a grievance. 

The reasons against lodging such an accusation, as you put them, are typically fear of the ensuing publicity - and as you put it "getting every aspect of her life analyzed" in public, no less. This is an entirely rational reason to doubt the falseness of an accusation as a generality -- except, perhaps, in the case of a woman who willingly courts publicity by lugging a matress about in public. Such a person, it seems to me, is less likely than the average to fear having her private life exposed in public, or be concerned about a "victim stigma".

So because she chooses to speak out now and face public scrutiny on her own terms, she can never credibly have made decisions wanting to avoid public scrutiny on other terms in the past?

I'm not convinced.

Huh? No.

Because she very obviously does not fear a "victim stigma" now, makes it more likely that she did not fear a "victim stigma" then, because she's not the sort of person that fears a "victim stigma".

This bit of information goes into the cost/benefit analysis as to whether she would have been deterred by fear of a "victim stigma" from making an accusation.

While it is rational to presume that most people are strongly deterred by fear of a "victim stigma" from making accusations (false or true) as a generality, that generality does not hold true in her case.

[Martinus]

I suppose there is also a possibility that she was raped but that she is suffering from a psychological disorder. That would explain her bizarre behaviour (and the fact that the relevant university investigation body found her incredible) while not necessarily meaning she is lying.

[garbon]

A rational reason for lodging an accusation against this particular person with the university could very easily be personal dislike of this person, with whom we know she was, at one point, she was having a sexual relationship. Lots of people who break up do so in ways leaving one party or another with a grievance. 

The reasons against lodging such an accusation, as you put them, are typically fear of the ensuing publicity - and as you put it "getting every aspect of her life analyzed" in public, no less. This is an entirely rational reason to doubt the falseness of an accusation as a generality -- except, perhaps, in the case of a woman who willingly courts publicity by lugging a matress about in public. Such a person, it seems to me, is less likely than the average to fear having her private life exposed in public, or be concerned about a "victim stigma".

So because she chooses to speak out now and face public scrutiny on her own terms, she can never credibly have made decisions wanting to avoid public scrutiny on other terms in the past?

I'm not convinced.

Huh? No.

Because she very obviously does not fear a "victim stigma" now, makes it more likely that she did not fear a "victim stigma" then, because she's not the sort of person that fears a "victim stigma".

This bit of information goes into the cost/benefit analysis as to whether she would have been deterred by fear of a "victim stigma" from making an accusation.

While it is rational to presume that most people are strongly deterred by fear of a "victim stigma" from making accusations (false or true) as a generality, that generality does not hold true in her case.

Oddly in May when interviewed by the school newspaper she said:

http://columbiaspectator.com/news/2014/05/16/frustrated-columbias-inaction-student-reports-sexual-assault-police

Sulkowicz said that she didn't want to report her attack to the police because she was embarrassed and ashamed of what had happened to her.

"When it first happened, I didn't want to talk to anyone. I didn't even tell my parents. ... I didn't even want to talk to my best friend," she said.

Sulkowicz decided to file a complaint against Nungesser through the University when she met two other women he allegedly assaulted. "I realized that if I didn't report him he'd continue to attack women on this campus. I had to do it for those other women," Sulkowicz said.

[garbon]

I suppose there is also a possibility that she was raped but that she is suffering from a psychological disorder.

Oh like how PTSD can occur after a traumatic event like rape?

[Martinus]

Oh well, I'm agnostic.

[Jacob]

Huh? No.

Because she very obviously does not fear a "victim stigma" now, makes it more likely that she did not fear a "victim stigma" then, because she's not the sort of person that fears a "victim stigma".

This bit of information goes into the cost/benefit analysis as to whether she would have been deterred by fear of a "victim stigma" from making an accusation.

While it is rational to presume that most people are strongly deterred by fear of a "victim stigma" from making accusations (false or true) as a generality, that generality does not hold true in her case.

Not responding to my point - that there's a difference between backing off dealing with something under one set of circumstances and embracing dealing with them under a different set of circumstances - by restating your argument does not make it more convincing.

I don't really think cost/benefit analysis is an appropriate term to use when dealing with this type of case, but even so - there's a different cost/benefit analysis for her then and now. In one situation she felt alone, that nothing would come out of it, and that the process would be painful; now she's found away to make the process not painful - empowering even - and there are some positive things associated with it.

She's found a way to turn the cost/benefit analysis of pursuing this into a positive; you are taking that as proof that she is likely lying. I remain unconvinced.

[garbon]

Oh well, I'm agnostic.

It hardly seems that way.

[Admiral Yi]

I'm around 70/30 lie/truth.

[The Brain]

What does it matter? Pretty hard to prove anything in a meaningful way long after the fact.

[Jacob]

I'm around 70/30 lie/truth.

I'm 5/95 lie/truth.

What are the things that push your "lie" numbers up?

[Razgovory]

I admit I dislike the automatic assumption that an accusation has factual basis.  I think that people should take a more neutral stand starting out.

[MadImmortalMan]

it sounds suspiciously close to calling anyone who doesn't agree with a liar.

I don't think so as that isn't the intent at all. I've just yet to see any stats on how many claimed rapes are actually false and any look at what impact that has on attitudes towards rape. Presumably, someone making the claim that false rapes are just as big a problem as rapes would have some cites for that, right?

Well the cop in that Al-J article said he had to bully the girl because he gets 20 to one fake accusations. And the girl said she didn't want to report the rape to the cops because they would bully her. Sounds exactly like false claims making it hard for the victims.

[Admiral Yi]

What are the things that push your "lie" numbers up?

Have you been reading the thread?

[Eddie Teach]

I'm 5/95 lie/truth.

Very trusting of you. I'm only 95% sure you're Canadian.

[Jacob]

I'm 5/95 lie/truth.

Very trusting of you. I'm only 95% sure you're Canadian.

Always good to keep that 5% to hedge your bets.