Columbia student carrying mattress until school expels her rapist

[grumbler]

I haven't read all replies, but do tell me: rape cases in US universities ARE handed over to the police, right?

All rape cases are turned over to the police if the victim is willing.  Where the victim is unwilling, like in the Colombia case in question, the police are pretty much powerless.

As for this particular case, from my experience raped women tend very much to avoid contact with anything that reminds them of what happened to them. And therefore walking around with a mattress where she was supposedly raped strikes me as very odd (not to mention her behaviour).

I am skeptical of the claims 

Two arguments in favor of not weighing the "drag the mattress" thing too heavily against her:
(1) The incident in question occurred about two years ago, so she has had some time to recover and reflect; and
(2) She may see the whole mattress deal as a means of empowering herself against the helpless feelings that rape can engender.

I still doubt her story, because people infinitely more experienced in dealing with the topic, and knowing infinitely more about the incident than i do, have concluded that the preponderance of evidence (which, again, they have seen and I have not) favors the guy's version of the story.  True, the woman's actions would also cast doubt on the veracity of her story, but the fact that her story has been rejected by the competent and informed authorities after due process weighs far more heavily on me (even if Jake gives it no weight at all).

[grumbler]

I haven't read all replies, but do tell me: rape cases in US universities ARE handed over to the police, right?

It would appear its up to the victim to take the matter up with the police.  It's not done automatically by the university.

The university is required to strongly urge the victim to go to the police, but cannot make the victim do so.

[The Brain]

All rape cases are turned over to the police if the victim is willing. 

[grumbler]

All rape cases are turned over to the police if the victim is willing. 

yeah, it seems kinda crazy, but the fact of the matter is that, if the victim isn't willing to cooperate in the investigation, it isn't going to go anywhere (in the US, at least).  I suppose that there are places where there is enough surveillance available that the cops can figure out and prove who dunnit without getting any of the facts or evidence from the victim, but the US isn't one of them.

[viper37]

You smoke pot.  You kill your roommate because you think he's a demon.

Someone hasn't smoked very much pot. 

true legal case, the guy was acquitted on grounds of temporary insanity. He was considered addicted to pot, thus not responsible for his actions.

[Jacob]

What if we think both are big problems?  Is that not possible?  I happen to think they are closely linked, since false claims don't just hurt the falsely accused-- they affect all women as well.

Fair point.

[Barrister]

When it comes to rape allegations I like to ask "what motivation is there to make up such a story"?  It's not as if identifying yourself as a rape victim is a badge of honour in this society.  Indeed - look at how she has opened herself up to getting every aspect of her life analyzed.

Now, sometimes there is a motive to make up a story.  You've done something you're not proud of, so you claim to be raped.  Maybe you're looking for some kind of financial payout.  In the right circumstances those factors can apply.

But for the large majority of rape allegations, they don't.  Which is why I tend to believe most rape victims.

[Jacob]

What about my statement perplexes you?

More or less what grumbler said.  You seem to be totally disregarding a lot of evidence.

I don't want to put words into your mouth here, but are you saying that by the evidence we have seen the girl with the mattress is definitely lying?

[DGuller]

When it comes to rape allegations I like to ask "what motivation is there to make up such a story"?  It's not as if identifying yourself as a rape victim is a badge of honour in this society.  Indeed - look at how she has opened herself up to getting every aspect of her life analyzed.

Now, sometimes there is a motive to make up a story.  You've done something you're not proud of, so you claim to be raped.  Maybe you're looking for some kind of financial payout.  In the right circumstances those factors can apply.

But for the large majority of rape allegations, they don't.  Which is why I tend to believe most rape victims.

Why does it have to be a rational reason?  Can't it be just pure vengeance (which, after a while, also becomes a story you're stuck with)?  Most people just move on with their lives, but you're not dealing with most people.  By its nature your job tends to deal with people that are often highly deviant in some way.

[Admiral Yi]

I don't want to put words into your mouth here, but are you saying that by the evidence we have seen the girl with the mattress is definitely lying?

I am saying we have evidence that make either conclusion, that she is lying or telling the truth, not a metaphysical certainty, as you seem to have done.

I believe she is lying, but I don't claim there is zero evidence she is telling the truth.

[The Brain]

When it comes to rape allegations I like to ask "what motivation is there to make up such a story"?  It's not as if identifying yourself as a rape victim is a badge of honour in this society.  Indeed - look at how she has opened herself up to getting every aspect of her life analyzed.

Now, sometimes there is a motive to make up a story.  You've done something you're not proud of, so you claim to be raped.  Maybe you're looking for some kind of financial payout.  In the right circumstances those factors can apply.

But for the large majority of rape allegations, they don't.  Which is why I tend to believe most rape victims.

Why does it have to be a rational reason?  Can't it be just pure vengeance (which, after a while, also becomes a story you're stuck with)?  Most people just move on with their lives, but you're not dealing with most people.  By its nature your job tends to deal with people that are often highly deviant in some way.

"Canadians"?

[Jacob]

I don't want to put words into your mouth here, but are you saying that by the evidence we have seen the girl with the mattress is definitely lying?

I am saying we have evidence that make either conclusion, that she is lying or telling the truth, not a metaphysical certainty, as you seem to have done.

I believe she is lying, but I don't claim there is zero evidence she is telling the truth.

Thanks for the clarification

I believe that the evidence that we have seen doesn't indicate much in the way of lying or telling the truth either way.

What parts of the evidence points towards "she's most likely lying" in your eyes?

[grumbler]

  Which is why I tend to believe most rape victims.

I think most people believe most rape allegations.  However, the fact that most rape accusations are believable doesn't change the approach one should take to any specific rape allegation, particularly one that has been examined as part of due process, and found wanting.  The presumption of honesty can be challenged by specific facts.

Similarly, we must guard against assuming that, since most due process outcomes are just, all due process outcomes are just.  The presumption of justice can also be challenged by the facts.

In this particular case, however, there is no evidence that the presumption of justice should be waived, and some evidence that the presumption of honesty should be waived.  Hence my belief that the woman is the one who is wrong... in this case.

[garbon]

What if we think both are big problems?  Is that not possible?  I happen to think they are closely linked, since false claims don't just hurt the falsely accused-- they affect all women as well.

Fair point.

I don't know about that. I can't really believe false accusations are as big a problem as rape. Really I think point out false accusations is just an easy excuse for people who aren't that concerned about rape - well they are concerned about rape if it is rape rape.

[Jacob]

What if we think both are big problems?  Is that not possible?  I happen to think they are closely linked, since false claims don't just hurt the falsely accused-- they affect all women as well.

Fair point.

I don't know about that. I can't really believe false accusations are as big a problem as rape. Really I think point out false accusations is just an easy excuse for people who aren't that concerned about rape - well they are concerned about rape if it is rape rape.

Also a fair point