Columbia student carrying mattress until school expels her rapist

[Barrister]

At any rate, I don't really think Ms. Mattress Girl and her rape or not rape is the key issue here. I think all of this - as stated clearly with the piece - is to raise more awareness of an ongoing problem on university campuses. I mean if you look at many of the posts in this thread there is a lot of stated disbelief that this is really an ongoing issue and a huge dose of the supposition that girls are blowing things out of proportion.

That is a problem. But then we have this silly notion called presumption of innocence, too.

ok?

She is not just raising awareness, she also wants a specific guy expelled. Has it crossed your mind that he might be innocent?

No.

[derspiess]

At any rate, I don't really think Ms. Mattress Girl and her rape or not rape is the key issue here. I think all of this - as stated clearly with the piece - is to raise more awareness of an ongoing problem on university campuses. I mean if you look at many of the posts in this thread there is a lot of stated disbelief that this is really an ongoing issue and a huge dose of the supposition that girls are blowing things out of proportion.

That sounds like the rationale for excusing staged/false hate crimes on campus.

Also are staged/false hate crimes super common?

Several have made the news in the past few years.  Here's the most recent: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/09/05/sweet-briar-college-race-_n_5773412.html

[Malthus]

At any rate, I don't really think Ms. Mattress Girl and her rape or not rape is the key issue here. I think all of this - as stated clearly with the piece - is to raise more awareness of an ongoing problem on university campuses. I mean if you look at many of the posts in this thread there is a lot of stated disbelief that this is really an ongoing issue and a huge dose of the supposition that girls are blowing things out of proportion.

The problem is that, while I fully believe that rape on campus is in fact a huge problem, the more I read about Ms. Mattress Girl the less credible her individual case appears; in effect, she's doing her stated cause more harm than good (for those who bother to read about the facts of her particular case).

In particular, it is difficult to believe that someone so devoted to her cause as to carry a mattress about everywhere in order to get the alleged perp expelled, simply can't be bothered with such details as police procedures and interviews.

[Valmy]

Look, wanting to "put something behind you" is fine, and I can understand that sentiment.  I can also understand the "wanting justice to be done" sentiment - obviously I'm a big fan.  But you can't have them both.  And you can't complain that justice isn't being done if you won't give a formal statement to police.

Yep.  I had heard about the mattress carrying thing but for some reason I thought she was protesting the system or something.  Turns out she didn't follow up.  Strange position for an activist to take.

[Habbaku]

Slacktivism in action.

[Valmy]

The problem is that, while I fully believe that rape on campus is in fact a huge problem, the more I read about Ms. Mattress Girl the less credible her individual case appears; in effect, she's doing her stated cause more harm than good (for those who bother to read about the facts of her particular case).

In particular, it is difficult to believe that someone so devoted to her cause as to carry a mattress about everywhere in order to get the alleged perp expelled, simply can't be bothered with such details as police procedures and interviews.

I agree with this except the bizarre notion she is doing her cause harm.  This is being talked about everywhere, she is making a difference in drawing attention to this issue.  Most people couldn't give two shits about her particular case.  If you look at just her case she is kind of an asshole, but on an activism standpoint she is making a big difference.  I guess that is how it goes.

[Valmy]

Slacktivism in action.

[garbon]

At any rate, I don't really think Ms. Mattress Girl and her rape or not rape is the key issue here. I think all of this - as stated clearly with the piece - is to raise more awareness of an ongoing problem on university campuses. I mean if you look at many of the posts in this thread there is a lot of stated disbelief that this is really an ongoing issue and a huge dose of the supposition that girls are blowing things out of proportion.

That is a problem. But then we have this silly notion called presumption of innocence, too.

ok?

She is not just raising awareness, she also wants a specific guy expelled. Has it crossed your mind that he might be innocent?

Sure, maybe? I don't really see what that has to do with anything as I don't recall posting anything about how that particular guy needs to get punished.

[garbon]

The problem is that, while I fully believe that rape on campus is in fact a huge problem, the more I read about Ms. Mattress Girl the less credible her individual case appears; in effect, she's doing her stated cause more harm than good (for those who bother to read about the facts of her particular case).

In particular, it is difficult to believe that someone so devoted to her cause as to carry a mattress about everywhere in order to get the alleged perp expelled, simply can't be bothered with such details as police procedures and interviews.

I agree with this except the bizarre notion she is doing her cause harm.  This is being talked about everywhere, she is making a difference in drawing attention to this issue.  Most people couldn't give two shits about her particular case.  If you look at just her case she is kind of an asshole, but on an activism standpoint she is making a big difference.  I guess that is how it goes.

Yep, that's exactly my thinking.

[garbon]

Look, wanting to "put something behind you" is fine, and I can understand that sentiment.  I can also understand the "wanting justice to be done" sentiment - obviously I'm a big fan.  But you can't have them both.  And you can't complain that justice isn't being done if you won't give a formal statement to police.

Yep.  I had heard about the mattress carrying thing but for some reason I thought she was protesting the system or something.  Turns out she didn't follow up.  Strange position for an activist to take.

I guess she's just protesting that the university cleared her rapist.

[Legbiter]

Slacktivism in action.

It's a turbocharged form of female attention-whoring amplified by social media and aided and abetted by the campus rape hysteria. After some time has passed this will all be looked upon like the satanic ritual abuse panic back in the 80's. 

[grumbler]

I think you are missing my point (or I am not stating it with sufficient clarity).

I am not saying that the allegation in this case "fell short of criminal behavior or cannot be prosecuted". On the contrary. The allegation was extremely serious and was, without a doubt, one that concerned "criminal behaviour" and that "could be prosecuted". And so it should have been - in the criminal courts, after a police investigation.

To use another example: if a student came to the university discipline committee and complained that his roommate had committed a murder, should the administrators:

(1) hold an administrative hearing, to determine whether the roommate had, in point of fact, committed an offence against the student code worthy of having them expelled, or

(2) call the cops to investigate the alleged crime of murder, given that the cops have stuff like trained investigators and forensics, and so are in a better position to determine whether a murder has occured than some administrators working for a university?   

To my mind, it makes no sense to choose option (1). Same with this particular case in the OP.

Ah.  I didn't know that the student went directly to the university disciplinary committee and that the committee decided not to notify the cops.  That was certainly wrong, and not in accordance with the law or university policies.

Where are you getting your excellent and interesting info?  None of it is in any version of the story I have heard.  Inside sources?

I don't think the sequence of events is in any way controversial.

She brought a compaint before the university discipline committee. It was rejected. She then went public with her allegations. This gained lots of publicity, and many asked why she did not go to the police. Responding to this pressure, she then went to the police (months after her discipline complaint was rejected, and now years after the alleged event). She was dissatisfied with the police investigation that ensued. She found their questioning rude and abusive. So she then withdrew her complaint - I assume, but do not know, this scotched their investigation. 

http://america.aljazeera.com/watch/shows/america-tonight/articles/2014/5/19/why-college-rapevictimsdonatgotothepolice.html

http://nymag.com/thecut/2014/09/columbia-emma-sulkowicz-mattress-rape-performance-interview.html

Sounds to me l;ike the sequence of events was
(1) the incident occurs.  She doesn't consider it worth going to the police or anyone else about.
(2) over a year later, she hears that the guy is a jerk.  She reports her experience to some school authorities (surely not the disciplinary panel; they would only meet to hear the case). Your presumption here that the authority at school didn't ask her to report it to the police seems to be unwarranted; such an authority would probably have to encourage her to report the incident to the police; it's the law.  In any case, the police are out; the only ability the school authority has is to report it as a student conduct violation
(3) the disciplinary process grinds through the investigation and the hearing.  The disciplinary panel hears the two sides out, and rules that the guy's version of the story is more credible, and so rules,  She appeals, and loses.  She beings her protest.
(4) Months later, she goes to the police.  She is dissatisfied with the investigation, and so withdraws her cooperation.  the police investigation ends.

Nothing here seems like the university usurping any criminal justice system powers or prerogatives.  This case could have been pursued by the criminal justice system, but the woman decided not to pursue that route.  The best she could hope for is to get him kicked out of the school by the disciplinary committee, but that didn't happen.

As an aside, the school, and everyone associated with it, is required by law to protect the privacy of those accused of misconduct but not found guilty of any violation short of one that get the perp kicked out of school.  They cannot comment on the case.  So, we are just hearing one side of this.

The problem of campus rape is very real and very serious.  One can argue that a procedure which uses preponderance of evidence, rather than a higher standard of proof, is going to result in some false convictions, but that's the standard used in civil trials (which this system resembles far more than it does a criminal trial) and it arguably will result in safer campuses. 

However, cases like this one (where the woman refuses to accept the results of the process), and the Duke Lacrosse debacle, only retard progress towards making campuses safer, by promoting the idea that there are a lot of false accusations of rape floating around.

[garbon]

However, cases like this one (where the woman refuses to accept the results of the process), and the Duke Lacrosse debacle, only retard progress towards making campuses safer, by promoting the idea that there are a lot of false accusations of rape floating around.

I've a minor quibble regarding the bit in bold. If someone was raped and process ended with rapist getting away with it, are they expected to accept the results of the process?

[garbon]

At any rate, I don't really think Ms. Mattress Girl and her rape or not rape is the key issue here. I think all of this - as stated clearly with the piece - is to raise more awareness of an ongoing problem on university campuses. I mean if you look at many of the posts in this thread there is a lot of stated disbelief that this is really an ongoing issue and a huge dose of the supposition that girls are blowing things out of proportion.

That sounds like the rationale for excusing staged/false hate crimes on campus.

Also are staged/false hate crimes super common?

Several have made the news in the past few years.  Here's the most recent: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/09/05/sweet-briar-college-race-_n_5773412.html

I'm still not really sure what this has to do with anything.

[grumbler]

I've a minor quibble regarding the bit in bold. If someone was raped and process ended with rapist getting away with it, are they expected to accept the results of the process?

Yes.  That's part of the rule of law.  One cannot only accept the rulings that one agrees with.  Vigilantiism is frowned upon.