Dispatches from the State Ministry of Truth

[Ed Anger]

Still better than Dinosaur comics

[CountDeMoney]

Or Boondocks.

[The Minsky Moment]

To me rights are positive and liberties are negative. I would further define a right as something that is almost always exercised in the public sphere and something that correlates with a positive obligation of the state or another person to do something.

Rights and liberties are correlative.  I think this is one of these common law/civil law worldview things.

A "right" to gay marriage just means that the state is not given the power to block such a marriage and that if the state elects to recognize marriages through its positive law it is deprived of the ability to exercise that power in a discriminatory way.  The "right" consists of a negative constraint on state action, the corollary of which is that the citizen can engage in positive action without fear of restraint or reprisal.

Any right can be described as a liberty or any liberty as a right by just flipping it around on its head.

[garbon]

Or Boondocks.

Cathy

[CountDeMoney]

Or Boondocks.

Cathy

[garbon]

I had to suffer that thought so I thought I should share.

[Monoriu]

-More and more groups are giving government deadlines to clear the camps, or they will do it themselves.  This includes the logistics associations and drivers' guilds.

-the latest internet sensation here is, surprisingly, a police chief superintendent.  He holds daily press briefings on how the riots have negatively affected traffic and business, but has captured the hearts of tens of thousands of fans with his funny face, verbal tics, tendency to repeat himself and Chinglish (all government press briefings are in both Chinese and English).  He also holds his briefings at 4:00pm, a timeslot that is usually reserved for children's TV programmes.  Fans are saying his briefings are much more interesting than the boring old school children's programmes.

http://news.sina.com.hk/news/20141009/-2-3401859/1.html

(pic of the police officer, with the background changed to that of a children's programme)

https://www.facebook.com/HUIsir4pm

(fans have opened a facebook page for him, and he already has over 30,000 likes). 

He missed yesterday's press briefing, and I already see the rioter camps putting up signs that they miss him.

- the media has reported waves of unfriendings in HK as people are divided over the riots. 

- the Chinese premier is now visiting Germany, and he is the most senior figure to have spoken on events.  He basically recited the usual official-speak, so there is nothing new there.  What makes matter worse is that the German president (never heard that they have one) compares the riots to the events in 89 that toppled the East German government.  That ought to give the wrong impression to the Chinese premier that we really have rebels in our city that aim to topple the communist party.   

[Monoriu]

Hong Kong protest: Thousands on streets for fresh rally
The BBC's Juliana Liu: Activists hope new show of strength will... sustain the movement


Thousands of people are demonstrating in Hong Kong's financial district after protest leaders called for a show of strength.

It comes after the territory's deputy leader called off talks with student leaders scheduled for Friday.

Carrie Lam said the students' refusal to end their protest had made "constructive dialogue" impossible.

The protesters, demanding full democratic elections in 2017, paralysed parts of Hong Kong in recent weeks.

Throughout the week only a few hundred protesters, mostly students, remained on the streets around the financial and government district of Admiralty and in Mong Kok north of the harbour.

But after the talks were cancelled, leaders of the student movement called on supporters to return to the streets.

"Come to occupy the road outside the public headquarters, come bring your tents to show our persistence on long term occupy action," said Joshua Wong, the 17-year-old founder of the Scholarism movement.


Hong Kong Chief Secretary Carrie Lam said that the basis for constructive dialogue had been "undermined"

The BBC's Juliana Liu in Hong Kong says the activists are hoping a new show of strength will be enough to sustain the movement.

"We are now planning on further action for escalating [the campaign] if the government keeps denying the meeting," said Alex Chow, secretary general of the Hong Kong Federation of Students (HKFS).

Analysis: John Sudworth in Hong Kong

Once again the protest was entirely peaceful and good-natured, with speeches, applause and a bit of singing. But this was a rally on a Friday night in response to a call for a show of strength - oughtn't it to be ginormous, rather than just big?

Some estimates put the number at 10,000 or more but that's still a long way short of the scale of the protests at their peak. Hardly resounding proof of city-wide support for the pro-democracy fight and disruption it's causing.

But, if nothing else, neither is it small enough in scale to give the Hong Kong government what it so badly wants. This is not yet a movement that has run out of steam. The stalemate continues.

Students check their laptops and smartphones during a rally of pro-democracy demonstrators in Hong Kong - 10 October 2014 The student protesters remain resolute in their calls for the right to free and fair elections in Hong Kong
People are seen on an escalator as pro-democracy demonstrators gather for a rally in Hong Kong - 10 October 2014 The streets around the financial and government district of Admiralty have been a focus of the protests
Woman passes barricades in Admiralty, Hong Kong (10 Oct 2014) The protests have caused major disruption but most people are able to get to work despite the shutdown
The protesters want to be able to directly elect Hong Kong's leader, the chief executive, in the 2017 election.

China has said that, under Hong Kong law, voters will be able to vote freely but from a list approved by a nominating committee.

Ms Lam has accused the students of "undermining trust" in the proposed talks by repeatedly calling people out to protest.

"The dialogue cannot be deployed as an excuse to incite more people to join the protest," she said. "The illegal occupation activists must stop."

Democracy 'a right'

In a separate development on Friday, Taiwan's President Ma Ying-jeou used his National Day speech to urge Beijing to move towards democracy, voicing support for Hong Kong's protesters.

Mr Ma said that as China became more prosperous, its people would want more democracy and the rule of law.

"Such a desire has never been a monopoly of the West, but it is the right of all humankind," he said.

Taiwan - which Beijing views as a breakaway province but which has been governed separately since 1949 - has been watching developments in Hong Kong closely.

[Eddie Teach]

Cathy

Poor Irving. 

[Monoriu]

- some businesses are beginning to withdraw scholarships for university students as a protest against the riots

- for the first time, the People's Daily has begun to describe the occupation as "unrest", an upgrade from the previous description of "illegal activity".  The choice of wording is important, because the exact same Chinese word was used to describe the students in Tian An Men before military action took place. 

- HK government officials repeated in front of camera that the rioters must accept the National People's Congress decision regarding HK's election rules before any talks will take place (that's another way of saying that they must surrender before any talks will take place).

- Beijing once again repeated, this time in more colourful language, that the National People's Congress decision will not be amended in any shape or form.  Anybody who thinks there is any chance of that happening "must come from the moon".  I think it is blatently obvious that they will send in the PLA before they'll back down on political reform.

- latest count is that there are several hundred tents and about two thousand people in the rioter main camp in Admiralty.  The count took place during a weekend. 

- anti-rioter groups have called for mass action to clear the camps tomorrow.

[Martinus]

Do you understand the meaning of the word "rioter", Mono?

[Monoriu]

Do you understand the meaning of the word "rioter", Mono?

I thought we are well past that point in the discussion 

[DGuller]

Do you understand the meaning of the word "rioter", Mono?

The more appropriate question is "Do you have the desire to understand the meaning of the word 'rioter', Mono?"

[Ed Anger]

I wouldn't listen to you people either.

[garbon]

I wouldn't listen to you people either.

Did someone just speak?