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Dispatches from the State Ministry of Truth

Started by Jacob, September 22, 2014, 10:05:27 AM

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Maximus

Quote from: Jacob on October 03, 2014, 12:52:02 PM
Not a bad basis, but there are plenty of people who elevate selfishness to a virtue.
Yes, there are.

Barrister

Quote from: Maximus on October 03, 2014, 12:51:16 PM
Quote from: Monoriu on October 03, 2014, 09:56:46 AM
Here, you need to apply for a permit to conduct a protest in advance, and you need to agree with the police on the route and timing.  Otherwise, it is illegal and the police are empowered to clear the area and make charges.
There's little point to a protest that has to get permission to occur.

There's some rational basis for demonstrators needing to get permission - so as to organize security, direct vehicle traffic, that sort of thing.

Trouble is it is very easy for less-than-democratic governments to impose so many restrictions introduced ostensibly for those reason that you wind up taking away people's right to gather and protest.
Posts here are my own private opinions.  I do not speak for my employer.

Eddie Teach

I think a lot of people conflate selfishness with greed. Wanting things isn't inherently evil.
To sleep, perchance to dream. But in that sleep of death, what dreams may come?

Admiral Yi

Quote from: Maximus on October 03, 2014, 12:51:16 PM
There's little point to a protest that has to get permission to occur.

That renders virtually every protest in a first world country pointless.

Barrister

Quote from: Peter Wiggin on October 03, 2014, 12:58:38 PM
I think a lot of people conflate selfishness with greed. Wanting things isn't inherently evil.

Well to a lot of ethical or religious beliefs, it is.  "Thou shall not covet" is one of the Ten Commandments, after all.  Buddhists has a lot to say about the negativity of want and desire.

Posts here are my own private opinions.  I do not speak for my employer.

Camerus

Quote from: derspiess on October 03, 2014, 11:10:40 AM
Quote from: Monoriu on October 02, 2014, 10:15:11 PM
Quote from: derspiess on October 02, 2014, 10:11:52 PM
Do they still drink a lot of cognac in HK?

No clue.  What do you mean?

I read back in the 90s that HK had the highest per capita consumption of cognac.  Was just wondering if it's still big there.

It's still pretty huge in Shenzhen and the surrounding area.  My father in law has a huge collection of Hennessy, Martell, etc though most of which he received as gifts.  In fact, the Mandarin word they use for cognac is literally just "foreign alcohol" ("yang jiu").

Eddie Teach

Quote from: Barrister on October 03, 2014, 01:04:38 PM
"Thou shall not covet" is one of the Ten Commandments, after all. 

That's about wanting your neighbor's stuff, not a requirement to give away your own.
To sleep, perchance to dream. But in that sleep of death, what dreams may come?

Camerus

Apparently, the protestors are alleging the people attacking them are (at least in part) comprised of triad gang members.

Jacob

Quote from: Camerus on October 03, 2014, 01:07:57 PM
Apparently, the protestors are alleging the people attacking them are (at least in part) comprised of triad gang members.

I would be completely unsurprised.

Camerus

I actually think Mono's attitudes are perfectly in keeping with the prevailing mainland Chinese mindset:  concern solely with personal/family wealth, the concomitant fetishizing of stability (understandable given its history), and the absolute indifference to the sufferings of those outside your family / those below you in the wealth ladder. 

So I guess the inevitable mainlandization of Hong Kong - which the protestors could never seriously hope to stop - and the creeping influence of Beijing into more areas of life probably wouldn't seem as worrisome when one shares so much of the Mainland perspective.

mongers

Monos in action:



People shout at protesters in Mong Kok - 3 October
"We have it in our power to begin the world over again"

crazy canuck

I wonder if there is going to be another wave of HK immigrants fleeing to Vancouver.

Jacob

Quote from: crazy canuck on October 03, 2014, 02:33:20 PM
I wonder if there is going to be another wave of HK immigrants fleeing to Vancouver.

Depends on what happens next, I think.

crazy canuck

Quote from: mongers on October 03, 2014, 02:12:05 PM
Monos in action:



People shout at protesters in Mong Kok - 3 October

The guy pointing with his mouth open looks like he is straight out of casting from Invasion of the Body Snatchers.  Think of the last scene with Donald Sutherland.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GEStsLJZhzo

Maximus

Quote from: Admiral Yi on October 03, 2014, 01:03:37 PM
That renders virtually every protest in a first world country pointless.
Quote from: Barrister on October 03, 2014, 12:56:32 PM
There's some rational basis for demonstrators needing to get permission - so as to organize security, direct vehicle traffic, that sort of thing.

Trouble is it is very easy for less-than-democratic governments to impose so many restrictions introduced ostensibly for those reason that you wind up taking away people's right to gather and protest.
I think there is some give and take. As long as the government recognizes that protests may occur, it is in protesters' interest to work within the system with regard to time and place. Once the legal system is used to marginalize or shut down protest, however, all bets are off.