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Dispatches from the State Ministry of Truth

Started by Jacob, September 22, 2014, 10:05:27 AM

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Savonarola

Quote from: Monoriu on October 02, 2014, 02:57:53 AM
First comment from senior Chinese officials stationed in HK on the riots: the Sun rises normally.

Time to get drunk and watch a bullfight.  :beer:
In Italy, for thirty years under the Borgias, they had warfare, terror, murder and bloodshed, but they produced Michelangelo, Leonardo da Vinci and the Renaissance. In Switzerland, they had brotherly love, they had five hundred years of democracy and peace—and what did that produce? The cuckoo clock

DontSayBanana

Quote from: Monoriu on October 02, 2014, 04:25:43 AM
Occupying key roads indefinitely hurts others in the population.  It is akin to taking society hostage.  I for one do not find this acceptable.  There are other legal channels to protest. 

"Rioters" specifically implies violence.  You're wrong.

It seems to me there's a strong possibility they've already exhausted the "legal channels" and found them to be a placebo- might feel a bit better for having taken it, but it doesn't actually resolve anything.  The more you talk about these "legal channels" without pointing to specific, significant examples of success in using those channels, the more convinced I am that's exactly what's going on, and the "legal channels" you keep referring to are really just a relief valve to keep your society complacent with the status quo.
Experience bij!

DontSayBanana

Quote from: grumbler on October 02, 2014, 07:05:28 AM
I don't know why people are on Mono's case for using "rioters" incorrectly.  Its clear that he is misusing the word because it has such a high emotive content, and it suits his sense of outrage to use emotionally charged words, even incorrectly.

He can no more be convinced to use language accurately than any other commie can.  All commies lie through language choice.  We all know it, so it doesn't fool anyone, and it makes him feel better.  So, just roll with the whole "rioter" thing.

Seriously?  Coming from the king of picking apart arguments based on an ambiguous parsing? :lol:


We're just following your example, Grumbles.  Be proud.
Experience bij!

MadImmortalMan

Isn't blocking roads a form of violence? Using force does not always mean broken bones.
"Stability is destabilizing." --Hyman Minsky

"Complacency can be a self-denying prophecy."
"We have nothing to fear but lack of fear itself." --Larry Summers

Eddie Teach

Quote from: MadImmortalMan on October 02, 2014, 12:34:06 PM
Isn't blocking roads a form of violence? Using force does not always mean broken bones.

How is it different than blocking entrances to a building or seating within a restaurant?
To sleep, perchance to dream. But in that sleep of death, what dreams may come?

crazy canuck

Quote from: MadImmortalMan on October 02, 2014, 12:34:06 PM
Isn't blocking roads a form of violence? Using force does not always mean broken bones.

Surely the means by which a road is blocked determines whether the act is violent or not.  Shooting anyone who attempts to cross is violent.  Sitting and singing songs is not.

garbon

Quote from: crazy canuck on October 02, 2014, 12:41:22 PM
Quote from: MadImmortalMan on October 02, 2014, 12:34:06 PM
Isn't blocking roads a form of violence? Using force does not always mean broken bones.

Surely the means by which a road is blocked determines whether the act is violent or not.  Shooting anyone who attempts to cross is violent.  Sitting and singing songs is not.

Right. What the hell, MIM?
"I've never been quite sure what the point of a eunuch is, if truth be told. It seems to me they're only men with the useful bits cut off."
I drank because I wanted to drown my sorrows, but now the damned things have learned to swim.

Razgovory

Quote from: grumbler on October 02, 2014, 07:05:28 AM
I don't know why people are on Mono's case for using "rioters" incorrectly.  Its clear that he is misusing the word because it has such a high emotive content, and it suits his sense of outrage to use emotionally charged words, even incorrectly.

He can no more be convinced to use language accurately than any other commie can.  All commies lie through language choice.  We all know it, so it doesn't fool anyone, and it makes him feel better.  So, just roll with the whole "rioter" thing.

Mono isn't a communist.  His philosophy is simply "Well I'm on board, haul up the lifeboats".  You know, like a libertarian.  Just replace "libertarian" with "commie" and the sentence makes sense.
I've given it serious thought. I must scorn the ways of my family, and seek a Japanese woman to yield me my progeny. He shall live in the lands of the east, and be well tutored in his sacred trust to weave the best traditions of Japan and the Sacred South together, until such time as he (or, indeed his house, which will periodically require infusion of both Southern and Japanese bloodlines of note) can deliver to the South it's independence, either in this world or in space.  -Lettow April of 2011

Raz is right. -MadImmortalMan March of 2017

MadImmortalMan

IDK, I don't really get it. I mean, what would you guys consider it wrong to obstruct. What if a crowd blocked your house so you couldn't enter/exit? What if they blocked your kid from returning home from school? What if people thought you were too fat so they blocked your refrigerator? How about peacefully blocking the roads and rails so no food could enter a city, would that be acceptable?

I have a really sharp conscience when it comes to inconveniencing others, I will admit. So maybe I'm not really on the same page.
"Stability is destabilizing." --Hyman Minsky

"Complacency can be a self-denying prophecy."
"We have nothing to fear but lack of fear itself." --Larry Summers

DontSayBanana

Quote from: MadImmortalMan on October 02, 2014, 12:34:06 PM
Isn't blocking roads a form of violence? Using force does not always mean broken bones.

Violence can be employed to blockade a road, but it's not a form of violence in and of itself. :wacko:
Experience bij!

garbon

Quote from: MadImmortalMan on October 02, 2014, 01:03:02 PM
IDK, I don't really get it. I mean, what would you guys consider it wrong to obstruct. What if a crowd blocked your house so you couldn't enter/exit? What if they blocked your kid from returning home from school? What if people thought you were too fat so they blocked your refrigerator? How about peacefully blocking the roads and rails so no food could enter a city, would that be acceptable?

I have a really sharp conscience when it comes to inconveniencing others, I will admit. So maybe I'm not really on the same page.

All that's well and good but how is that violence? I hate Critical Mass but it isn't violence.
"I've never been quite sure what the point of a eunuch is, if truth be told. It seems to me they're only men with the useful bits cut off."
I drank because I wanted to drown my sorrows, but now the damned things have learned to swim.

derspiess

Quote from: Razgovory on October 02, 2014, 12:44:52 PM
Mono isn't a communist.  His philosophy is simply "Well I'm on board, haul up the lifeboats".  You know, like a libertarian.  Just replace "libertarian" with "commie" and the sentence makes sense.

Yes, libertarians love authoritarian governments.  IIRC from another discussion, they are closet fascists or something.
"If you can play a guitar and harmonica at the same time, like Bob Dylan or Neil Young, you're a genius. But make that extra bit of effort and strap some cymbals to your knees, suddenly people want to get the hell away from you."  --Rich Hall

Admiral Yi

Quote from: MadImmortalMan on October 02, 2014, 01:03:02 PM
IDK, I don't really get it. I mean, what would you guys consider it wrong to obstruct. What if a crowd blocked your house so you couldn't enter/exit? What if they blocked your kid from returning home from school? What if people thought you were too fat so they blocked your refrigerator? How about peacefully blocking the roads and rails so no food could enter a city, would that be acceptable?

I have a really sharp conscience when it comes to inconveniencing others, I will admit. So maybe I'm not really on the same page.

Violence is not necessary for us to consider an act wrong.

alfred russel

I'm curious what the long term worst case scenario is.

Beijing taking control and Hong Kong becoming a Cantonese Shanghai?
They who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety.

There's a fine line between salvation and drinking poison in the jungle.

I'm embarrassed. I've been making the mistake of associating with you. It won't happen again. :)
-garbon, February 23, 2014

Jacob

Quote from: alfred russel on October 02, 2014, 01:41:52 PM
I'm curious what the long term worst case scenario is.

Beijing taking control and Hong Kong becoming a Cantonese Shanghai?

Worst case scenario for whom?