The Shooting Gallery: Police Violence MEGATHREAD

[Zoupa]

You're being kind of obtuse dude. We just mean politicking.

Can you recall or describe to me when, in the last say 35 years, Democrats hammered and hammered that issue? I'm looking for an instance that actually convinced people to vote D on it, or even that fired up their base. Think WMD in Iraq, Benghazi, her emails, the election was stolen kind of level of communication from the Dems side on the issue of gun control.

You're being kind of vague dude.  Purposely or not, I don't know.

Are you talking about things like Julian Castro's tweets?  You want more red meat for the BLM crowd?

Alright I'm out. We're not getting each other.

[Zoupa]

I am not suggesting anyone lie, what I'm suggesting is that we treat all shootings as illegitimated until we get some movement on the issue.

You lose power to effect change when you fail to correlate your reaction to the circumstances of what you're reacting to.

Says who?

[DGuller]

I am not suggesting anyone lie, what I'm suggesting is that we treat all shootings as illegitimated until we get some movement on the issue.

You lose power to effect change when you fail to correlate your reaction to the circumstances of what you're reacting to.

Says who?

I don't know how you have your forum set up, but on my end, you can look to the left.  It shows "DGuller" for me.

[alfred russel]

It is going to be tough to win on gun control when things are this polarized and you have a filibuster. Even without the filibuster the senate is 50-50 and 2 democrats are from Montana and West Virginia.

[The Minsky Moment]

This discussion is a useful illustration of why the United States is failing.  We have a problem that is going to take a lot of effort, focus and resources to solve.  Yet there is almost no interest in doing so.  Instead, one "side" wants to deny the problems exists and the other wants to use it as a cudgel to beat the other side with.  No matter that it means the problem continues and more people die.  The dead to come will just have to be unwilling martyrs to the higher cause of sticking it to the Trumpies.

I'm not sure where you are getting that from?

I am not suggesting anyone lie, what I'm suggesting is that we treat all shootings as illegitimated until we get some movement on the issue.

[Razgovory]

I am not suggesting anyone lie, what I'm suggesting is that we treat all shootings as illegitimated until we get some movement on the issue.

I think it's going to be a lot harder to get some movement on the issue when you start off discrediting yourself.  You lose power to effect change when you fail to correlate your reaction to the circumstances of what you're reacting to.  When someone keeps harping on you no matter what you do or why you do it, you eventually start thinking that their issue is with your personally, and not with what you're doing.

I disagree.  Trump didn't get elected by careful analysis of immigration policy or distinguishing between legal immigrants, illegal immigrants or asylum seekers.  He won because he said the same thing over and over and over again.  The last four years have taught us that nuance doesn't do much for you in politics.

[The Minsky Moment]

You're being kind of obtuse dude. We just mean politicking.

Can you recall or describe to me when, in the last say 35 years, Democrats hammered and hammered that issue? I'm looking for an instance that actually convinced people to vote D on it, or even that fired up their base. Think WMD in Iraq, Benghazi, her emails, the election was stolen kind of level of communication from the Dems side on the issue of gun control.

The Democrats hammered health care in 2017-18 and won big.

[The Minsky Moment]

Trump didn't get elected

FYP

How did crazy GOP being crazy help them in Georgia?  They pissed away what should have been layup seats for them.

[Razgovory]

Trump didn't get elected

FYP

How did crazy GOP being crazy help them in Georgia?  They pissed away what should have been layup seats for them.

Okay, what do you suggest?

[Jacob]

I am not suggesting anyone lie, what I'm suggesting is that we treat all shootings as illegitimated until we get some movement on the issue.

Okay, fair enough.

While I think there's a real opportunity for the Democrats to make some gains on this issue, I concede that they shouldn't put Raz in charge of developing and executing the strategy.

[Admiral Yi]

It is going to be tough to win on gun control when things are this polarized and you have a filibuster. Even without the filibuster the senate is 50-50 and 2 democrats are from Montana and West Virginia.

I think there are two ways to win on gun control.

Wait for gun nuts to die out, then repeal the 2nd Amendment.

Devise a screening mechanism that can differentiate, with a reasonable degree of certainty, between those who will commit psycho mass shootings and those who won't.  Give licenses only to the latter.

[garbon]

This discussion is a useful illustration of why the United States is failing.  We have a problem that is going to take a lot of effort, focus and resources to solve.  Yet there is almost no interest in doing so.  Instead, one "side" wants to deny the problems exists and the other wants to use it as a cudgel to beat the other side with.  No matter that it means the problem continues and more people die.  The dead to come will just have to be unwilling martyrs to the higher cause of sticking it to the Trumpies.

I'm not sure where you are getting that from?

I am not suggesting anyone lie, what I'm suggesting is that we treat all shootings as illegitimated until we get some movement on the issue.

Is Raz representative of one side?

[alfred russel]

It is going to be tough to win on gun control when things are this polarized and you have a filibuster. Even without the filibuster the senate is 50-50 and 2 democrats are from Montana and West Virginia.

I think there are two ways to win on gun control.

Wait for gun nuts to die out, then repeal the 2nd Amendment.

Devise a screening mechanism that can differentiate, with a reasonable degree of certainty, between those who will commit psycho mass shootings and those who won't.  Give licenses only to the latter.

It seems like there is solid majority support for increased screening and restrictions on more militarized guns. It seems like those would be viable ideas, but that would probably require toning down the rhetoric rather than amplifying it (assuming you would need to get some GOP support and vulnerable dems on board).

Alternatively, outside of the legislative process, putting pressure on gun manufacturers and sellers of guns. This is obviously already happening with lawsuits after shootings, and pressuring banks / investment vehicles to exclude those entities from financing or investment.

[Zoupa]

You're being kind of obtuse dude. We just mean politicking.

Can you recall or describe to me when, in the last say 35 years, Democrats hammered and hammered that issue? I'm looking for an instance that actually convinced people to vote D on it, or even that fired up their base. Think WMD in Iraq, Benghazi, her emails, the election was stolen kind of level of communication from the Dems side on the issue of gun control.

The Democrats hammered health care in 2017-18 and won big.

Kinda proving my point there. They never hammered big on gun control.

[Berkut]

I am glad we are backing away from demands that the left "play dirty" like the right.