The Shooting Gallery: Police Violence MEGATHREAD

[viper37]

Dean said he did not know what part of the bicycle code Kizzee was suspected to have violated or how many times the deputies shot him, other than saying it was fewer than 20. His office declined to answer questions about the shooting and the status of the two deputies on Tuesday.

maybe US police should go back to using musket pistols. At least, it would be easier to count the shots that were fired.   

[merithyn]

Two months ago, I said that the protests were contained in a four-block area, and it was. I had gone down there to take pictures, to see it for myself. It wasn't pretty, but it wasn't awful. The park across from the federal building and city jail were messy, there was a lot of graffiti, but overall, it wasn't that bad. I had zero fear going downtown during the day.

Today, my company closed our campus down completely. Our office is two blocks from the city jail, and there were supposed to be protests today. (I'm avoiding the news, so I don't know if they happened, but likely.) On top of that, the shooting was eight blocks down from the federal building, and the protesters had swarmed a block further up and a block further down. Now we're talking 10 blocks by three blocks. It's growing. The police are tired and losing what little composure they had. The protesters are getting more bold, and the rioters (who are separate from the protesters, imo) are getting downright dangerous. They've lit fires in the streets, burned benches in the parks, and there have been attempted fires at the Mayor's apartment complex.

The Mayor has called for peace. The Police Chief, a newly appointed Chief who is a black man, has called for peace. BLM speakers have called for peace. It's not happening.

Do you know what else hasn't happened? The Mayor and the Police Chief have not sat down with the BLM organizers and had a conversation. The BLM organizers have asked, but the police say not until the protests stop. Well that's not going to happen. And worse than all of that, the vast majority of people causing the most damage are young white people (men and women). I've watched interviews on independent journalists' YouTube channels where the BLM organizers are in tears, begging people to stop causing destruction and damage. I've heard their speeches where they talk about peacefully making themselves heard.

All of it is so maddening. I'm an outsider, watching, and wishing with all of my heart that it will all stop, knowing that it's not going to. I absolutely love downtown Portland. It's a beautiful, vibrant, unique space. And it's being destroyed night after night. And for all the wrong reasons. So seeing the Patriot Prayer guys - with their sidekicks the Proud Boys - drive around my neighborhood is scary as fuck. Maybe it's hyperbole (anticipating grumbler here), but I'm an anxiety-riddled mess. I know several of the parents in my apartment complex are, too. This isn't okay. None of this is okay.

[The Brain]

DG suggested that AD is affiliated with Patriot Prayer.

I'm not.

Really? Then how come I saw your email address on the send list of the invitation to the Christmas bazaar last year?

OH CRAP

[Eddie Teach]

Who does The Brain pray to?

[katmai]

Who does The Brain pray to?

pray or prey?

[garbon]

I mean he is already fighting them and then they discover he was packing heat and you know the police are trained to unload if they feel like their lives are in danger. I mean I am not saying this was suicide but damn dude, especially being black after all that has happened.

Anyway the ball is in Los Angeles County's court to handle the fallout and not endanger more of their citizens and officers lives.

What's the all that has happened in your statement?

[viper37]

The BLM organizers have asked, but the police say not until the protests stop.

on that, they are absolutely right.  They should not cede to the demands of the street.

BLM want to meet with the police and politicians to explore solutions, fine, but the protests have to stop first.  Wether BLM is a machiavelic arch-organisation cooperating hand in hand with the Antifa terror network to destroy the heart and soul of America is irrelevant.  There are protests that degenerate.  They say they don't want them to degenerate, they at least ask people not to commit acts of violence and vandalism (and that's a very good thing and a step in the right direction), but it still happens regardless.

They should stop the protest, so that any violence that occurs would clearly not be linked to them and they should engage in a meaningful dialog with political and police representatives.

If they're unwilling to do that, it means they want to maintain their status as a protest group and are not interested in fixing anything that is, presumably, wrong.

Their only alternative is to keep protesting until a saviour arrives, and I doubt they'll get it.  The longer they protest, the more ground Trump's ilk are gaining.  If it comes to a point where a portion of the population feels "under siege", they will turn toward the "strong man", not the diplomatically minded one.

They should show everyone that you can arrive at a meaningful consensus, at racial harmony, without destroying the part of society non-racist conservatives are attached to.

[garbon]

What leverage do they have when the protests stop?

[Tamas]

The BLM organizers have asked, but the police say not until the protests stop.

on that, they are absolutely right.  They should not cede to the demands of the street.

BLM want to meet with the police and politicians to explore solutions, fine, but the protests have to stop first.  Wether BLM is a machiavelic arch-organisation cooperating hand in hand with the Antifa terror network to destroy the heart and soul of America is irrelevant.  There are protests that degenerate.  They say they don't want them to degenerate, they at least ask people not to commit acts of violence and vandalism (and that's a very good thing and a step in the right direction), but it still happens regardless.

They should stop the protest, so that any violence that occurs would clearly not be linked to them and they should engage in a meaningful dialog with political and police representatives.

If they're unwilling to do that, it means they want to maintain their status as a protest group and are not interested in fixing anything that is, presumably, wrong.

Their only alternative is to keep protesting until a saviour arrives, and I doubt they'll get it.  The longer they protest, the more ground Trump's ilk are gaining.  If it comes to a point where a portion of the population feels "under siege", they will turn toward the "strong man", not the diplomatically minded one.

They should show everyone that you can arrive at a meaningful consensus, at racial harmony, without destroying the part of society non-racist conservatives are attached to.

I very much disagree. Despite the Trumpian propaganda, the protesters are not a professional army, they cannot be just clocked in and out the street at the leadership's desire. Once the organisers send people home that's the end of it, and that is precisely why the city wants that to happen before they start to negotiate, as they would not have to negotiate at all if that happened.

Also the authorities are likely correct in their assumption that fatigue and the escalation of looting and violence will end the peaceful protests before they have to agree to anything.

[Valmy]

The violence has pretty much destroyed BLM's chances on a natinal level once again. Back in June it really felt like things were shifting and that most of the country was with them but that has all evaporated and we are pretty much back to where we were before George Floyd was killed. So those people who think they are helping by acting radical are really doing a great job enpowering and enabling the very thing they claim they are fighting against. I cannot condemn them more, both for the victims of their violence but also all the people whose lives might have been saved by comprehensive police reform. They might as well have shot them themselves for all they have accomplished over the past few months.

[Valmy]

I think some progress was made on a local level in some cities and hey maybe somebody will actualy produce a new model that works, that is ultimately how our federal system is supposed to work. But damn what a missed opportunity.

[garbon]

The violence has pretty much destroyed BLM's chances on a natinal level once again. Back in June it really felt like things were shifting and that most of the country was with them but that has all evaporated and we are pretty much back to where we were before George Floyd was killed. So those people who think they are helping by acting radical are really doing a great job enpowering and enabling the very thing they claim they are fighting against. I cannot condemn them more, both for the victims of their violence but also all the people whose lives might have been saved by comprehensive police reform. They might as well have shot them themselves for all they have accomplished over the past few months.

I'm reminded of this video:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=llci8MVh8J4

[crazy canuck]

my understanding of the case is that Blake was told to stop multiple times, 2 officers fired their tasers at him, and he kept going for his car where a knife was seen (and found).

unless the knife was planted there after the fact by the officers (unlikely, since he did say he had a knife), I don't see how it can be a hate crime at this point.  Maybe there's other evidences not referred by Wikipedia?

Blake was shot in the back six times.  Whether police had fired tasers at his back before then is not relevant.  whether there was a knife in his car is not relevant.  At the time he was assaulted, he posed no threat to anyone.  The officers could not have been in fear of their life given that his back was turned to them.  Police had no reason to believe that he had committed a crime, nor that he was going to commit a felony unless the police used deadly force.  So, the deadly force was not justified.  If you want to weasel about whether it was a "hate crime" or merely unprovoked attempted murder, please do so elsewhere.

There was a warrant for his arrest, and there had been a complaint he did not belong there.

At least someone supporting the police on this has the guts to say why a Black man was really shot.

[merithyn]

What leverage do they have when the protests stop?

This is it, exactly. By saying "not until", they're showing that they're more worried about maintaining the upper hand than helping fix what is a serious problem. It's bullshit. They need to do whatever they can to fix this. That's their job.

This playing chicken is exactly why we have a problem.

[Tonitrus]

Who does The Brain pray to?

To Crom, but he seldom prays to him.  He does not listen.