The Shooting Gallery: Police Violence MEGATHREAD

[Valmy]

Well if you have a gun on you, you can be shot and people can claim self defense. All that personal security a gun gives you, an armed society is a polite society and all that.

But you have to be pretty nuts these days to start fights with the police.

And of course this had to happen in Los Angeles County. 2020 delivers another shit sandwich.

[Tamas]

Well if you have a gun on you, you can be shot and people can claim self defense. All that personal security a gun gives you, an armed society is a polite society and all that.

But you have to be pretty nuts these days to start fights with the police.

And of course this had to happen in Los Angeles County. 2020 delivers another shit sandwich.

Probably the cops would not have shot him if he was of a more leniently judged skin colour, but he sounds like a petty thief who got into a fight with the police while resisting arrest. I would say as a general principle people who try to beat up cops to escape arrest should be shot at to avoid them escaping, to make resisting an arrest violently a bad gamble.

Then again a more trustworthy police force would be required for such a policy.

[merithyn]

Another black man shot in the back. This one was stopped for a bicycle violation.

Oh, he had a gun, but he had dropped it to the ground. That's why they shot him. Because he dropped the gun to the ground and they saw it, so they believed that their lives were in danger.

"he had dropped it to the ground" is enormously deceptive. If fell DURING A FISTFIGHT WITH THE COPS.

So they shot him 20 times in the back after he no longer had the gun, and you're okay with that?

[Valmy]

I mean he is already fighting them and then they discover he was packing heat and you know the police are trained to unload if they feel like their lives are in danger. I mean I am not saying this was suicide but damn dude, especially being black after all that has happened.

Anyway the ball is in Los Angeles County's court to handle the fallout and not endanger more of their citizens and officers lives.

[chipwich]

Another black man shot in the back. This one was stopped for a bicycle violation.

Oh, he had a gun, but he had dropped it to the ground. That's why they shot him. Because he dropped the gun to the ground and they saw it, so they believed that their lives were in danger.

"he had dropped it to the ground" is enormously deceptive. If fell DURING A FISTFIGHT WITH THE COPS.

So they shot him 20 times in the back after he no longer had the gun, and you're okay with that?

You are not entitled to chivalric conduct when assaulting a police officer.

[Valmy]

I mean you are in deep shit if you assault a police officer but anything short of being killed on the spot is hardly chivalric conduct.

But how were they to know he did not have another gun on him? These other police killings of citizens involved unarmed people, this is not like the others.

[Ancient Demon]

You have no idea what you're talking about. Their leader is under indictment right now for starting fights in downtown Portland last year. They are regularly at protests with guns, bats, and paintball guns. They deliberately drove through downtown Portland on Saturday during the BLM protests, spraying protesters with bear mace and shooting them with paintball guns.

Did they actually start fights against peaceful people though, or were they attacked? Surely they came prepared for a fight, Antifa and BLM won't tolerate a peaceful counterprotest and the police won't intervene.

[Ancient Demon]

DG suggested that AD is affiliated with Patriot Prayer.

I'm not.

[Ancient Demon]

Well that is just assualt. It isn't real violence until something gets looted or somebody gets killed by left wingers or blacks.

FYP

Wrong. I try to apply consistent standards regardless of race or party. My position in this thread has generally been that retaliatory violence is more justifiable than initiating violence, though I'd prefer no violence at all.

Merithyn seemed to imply that Patriot Prayer were prowling the streets looking for innocent minorities to attack. I don't think that's realistic.

[merithyn]

You have no idea what you're talking about. Their leader is under indictment right now for starting fights in downtown Portland last year. They are regularly at protests with guns, bats, and paintball guns. They deliberately drove through downtown Portland on Saturday during the BLM protests, spraying protesters with bear mace and shooting them with paintball guns.

Did they actually start fights against peaceful people though, or were they attacked? Surely they came prepared for a fight, Antifa and BLM won't tolerate a peaceful counterprotest and the police won't intervene.

There are videos of these people deliberately ramming other cars on the highway. They drove downtown and sprayed mace at passersby.

This is not the first time these guys have done this. It's not even the fourth time. This is their MO and has been since their inception in 2016.

[merithyn]

Well that is just assualt. It isn't real violence until something gets looted or somebody gets killed by left wingers or blacks.

FYP

Wrong. I try to apply consistent standards regardless of race or party. My position in this thread has generally been that retaliatory violence is more justifiable than initiating violence, though I'd prefer no violence at all.

Merithyn seemed to imply that Patriot Prayer were prowling the streets looking for innocent minorities to attack. I don't think that's realistic.

They're not looking for "minorities". Watch their own videos. They're hunting "antifa".

[Ancient Demon]

There are videos of these people deliberately ramming other cars on the highway. They drove downtown and sprayed mace at passersby.

This is not the first time these guys have done this. It's not even the fourth time. This is their MO and has been since their inception in 2016.

I haven't seen that and am quite skeptical.

[Ancient Demon]

They're not looking for "minorities". Watch their own videos. They're hunting "antifa".

I know, I was referring to what you said earlier:

Over the weekend, I saw several of the Patriot Prayer guys around my place, which is disconcerting. I live in a very minority-heavy area.

[grumbler]

Well that is just assualt. It isn't real violence until something gets looted or somebody gets killed by left wingers or blacks.

FYP

Wrong. I try to apply consistent standards regardless of race or party. My position in this thread has generally been that retaliatory violence is more justifiable than initiating violence, though I'd prefer no violence at all.

Merithyn seemed to imply that Patriot Prayer were prowling the streets looking for innocent minorities to attack. I don't think that's realistic.

They're not looking for "minorities". Watch their own videos. They're hunting "antifa".

And they believe that they can tell "antifa" because "antifa" has darker skin than non-antifa.

The police need to crack down on these guys brandishing guns and the system needs to toss them in the slammer for a while.  Otherwise we will end up with more children going to prison for murder because they are enamored with the gun fetish.

[merithyn]

They're not looking for "minorities". Watch their own videos. They're hunting "antifa".

I know, I was referring to what you said earlier:

Over the weekend, I saw several of the Patriot Prayer guys around my place, which is disconcerting. I live in a very minority-heavy area.

I think you misunderstand my unease. The Patriot Prayer guys - who usually have Proud Boys with them at these things - are provocateurs. They deliberately bait people to upset them. Real life trolls, if you will. Driving through my neighborhood - with Trump flags, guys in the back calling out to vote Trump, taunting anyone they see but especially people of color - is begging for someone to do something to them. They know this because that's exactly what they've been doing for years. They "bump" the cars in front of them, they spray bear mace, they antagonize people without actually attacking them. And when someone pushes back, then they unload on them, generally in the form of a fight. Sometimes, they have weapons - and they've shown them at rallies. In my neighborhood, it wouldn't surprise me if people around here have weapons, too. (Crime isn't unknown around here.)

This is a powder keg waiting for a match, and these guys know it. Portland has been protesting downtown every night since May. When the Feds came, the protesters got more violent, not less. (Prior to the feds coming, things had been winding down.) Now, there are riots every night. All of this is downtown and nowhere near where I live, but everyone in the city is on edge. It's hard not to be. So seeing these massive trucks filled with white men brandishing "Vote Trump" flags and paintball guns coming out our way is ... I'll be honest, it's scary as hell.

There are tiny children in my apartment complex. One stray bullet... There are families out playing all the time. You think parents aren't going to try to protect their children from this perceived threat?

COVID has all of us on edge. The protests/riots downtown ramped that up. Now... ? What do you think is going to happen? You think this is going to end peacefully with everyone holding hands and singing kumbaya? Yeah... tell that to Jay Danielson, the guy shot downtown on Saturday. Or those three guys shot in Kenosha (of all fucking places, KENOSHA??).

It all needs to stop, but it's not going to with those guys out trolling the streets for "antifa", aka "others".