The Shooting Gallery: Police Violence MEGATHREAD

[The Brain]

White people don't even know how to spell Kaepernick

But you're white...

am I....

Nope.

someone let Teach know.

I've seen your picture.

He really is a magnificent bastard, isn't he?

[katmai]

White people don't even know how to spell Kaepernick

But you're white...

am I....

Nope.

someone let Teach know.

I've seen your picture.

He really is a magnificent bastard, isn't he?

[Sheilbh]

The Yellow Vests did more damage than any recent American riot, and since they don't have a sincere guiding ideology they can't be said to be bettering France. In fact I'd consider them a classic failed movement.

I mean if you say they don't have a guiding ideology - which I agree with - I'm not sure you can really say they've failed, because how are you measuring "success". Macron certainly on a number of policy issues in response to the protests.

Althought I think the gilets jaunes are interesting and a sort of symptom of potential deeper issues France has (that are not a million miles from similar deeper issues in Italy or the UK).

[chipwich]

The Yellow Vests did more damage than any recent American riot, and since they don't have a sincere guiding ideology they can't be said to be bettering France. In fact I'd consider them a classic failed movement.

I mean if you say they don't have a guiding ideology - which I agree with - I'm not sure you can really say they've failed, because how are you measuring "success". Macron certainly on a number of policy issues in response to the protests.

Althought I think the gilets jaunes are interesting and a sort of symptom of potential deeper issues France has (that are not a million miles from similar deeper issues in Italy or the UK).

The GJ are so politically schizophrenic that theres no way of knowing if a typical protester wanted the concessions Macron made.

[Duque de Bragança]

Protests in France almost always work, mostly because of the disruption they cause. You need to hit the pocketbook. Block the infrastructure (don't destroy it). Stop going to work. The government always caves in.

France needs a Thatcher.

Coal mines are already closed, and having a Malouines-like war would be really a huge stroke of luck.

[Duque de Bragança]

The Yellow Vests did more damage than any recent American riot, and since they don't have a sincere guiding ideology they can't be said to be bettering France. In fact I'd consider them a classic failed movement.

I mean if you say they don't have a guiding ideology - which I agree with - I'm not sure you can really say they've failed, because how are you measuring "success". Macron certainly on a number of policy issues in response to the protests.

Althought I think the gilets jaunes are interesting and a sort of symptom of potential deeper issues France has (that are not a million miles from similar deeper issues in Italy or the UK).

The GJ are so politically schizophrenic that theres no way of knowing if a typical protester wanted the concessions Macron made.

Try the original demands i.e cancelling the cynical and "classist" rise of diesel taxes while gasoline would have a much lower increase under the thing guise of environmentalism. So no more diesel vehicles in Paris for tradesmen but not problem for gas-guzzling SUVs! 

At least, the hike was suspended, though it may have been intended as just postponed.

Macron's low legitimacy and high unpopularity is another matter, fueled by other reform attempts.

[Sheilbh]

The GJ are so politically schizophrenic that theres no way of knowing if a typical protester wanted the concessions Macron made.

Yeah agreed - but they're not like a typical French protest - e.g. block the streets because they're fucking with our pensions - or BLM where there is a single galvanising issue.

I think they're a symptom of social divides and fairly long-standing issues in France that we've all heard of that Macron particularly exemplifies. But, you know, I think they're more social unrest than a protest movement and more interesting than anything else. I mean I don't think this is Macron specific - but I think he exemplifies certain traits of the French elite and arguably the current Republic - and while the GJs have extremists in their number (but almost by definition people unhappy with the current "system" do - they are the periphery). There's something of them that is more the people who left out of that and arguably challenge its legitimacy.

As I say I don't think it's a million miles away from the Brexit vote or the fragmentation of mainstream politics in Italy, that's been expressed in certain votes in the UK and Italy. It's being expressed more through social unrest and protest in France.

[chipwich]

The Yellow Vests did more damage than any recent American riot, and since they don't have a sincere guiding ideology they can't be said to be bettering France. In fact I'd consider them a classic failed movement.

I mean if you say they don't have a guiding ideology - which I agree with - I'm not sure you can really say they've failed, because how are you measuring "success". Macron certainly on a number of policy issues in response to the protests.

Althought I think the gilets jaunes are interesting and a sort of symptom of potential deeper issues France has (that are not a million miles from similar deeper issues in Italy or the UK).

The GJ are so politically schizophrenic that theres no way of knowing if a typical protester wanted the concessions Macron made.

Try the original demands i.e cancelling the cynical and "classist" rise of diesel taxes while gasoline would have a much lower increase under the thing guise of ecology. So no more diesel vehicles in Paris for tradesmen but not problem for gas-guzzling SUVs! 

At least, the hike was suspended, though it may have been intended as just postponed.

Macron's low legitimacy and high unpopularity is another matter, fueled by other reform attempts.

The fuel taxes were a demand of some Yellow Vests but there's no way of knowing what fraction. Some wanted more environmentalism, some less, some wanted a socialist overthrow, some wanted a race war.

[chipwich]

Yeah agreed - but they're not like a typical French protest - e.g. block the streets because they're fucking with our pensions - or BLM where there is a single galvanising issue.

BLM isn't a single issue. It's a single motte and ten thousand bailies.

[Duque de Bragança]

The fuel taxes were a demand of some Yellow Vests but there's no way of knowing what fraction. Some wanted more environmentalism, some less, some wanted a socialist overthrow, some wanted a race war.

Not some, it was the early demand which started the movement. Macron let it unanswered hoping for the protests to stall and/or degenerate. Guess what, it degenerated and when people saw Macron caved in after a early martial pose, others with their agenda of their own, either political (extremes mostly- or just delinquents from the banlieues, sensed weakness and joined the fray. Lack of competence among the Macron clique did not help cf. Interior minister Castaner.
Once the genie was out of the bottle, yes it was difficult to comply with all the accumulated demands.

The early movement in the province was a family-friendly affair with lots of pensioners. In fact, the GJ movement originated from the part of France that does not profit from globalisation i.e globalized city centres, and does not get social money to keep the peace, i.e the banlieues. No public transportation in middle and small town France so fuel taxes hikes are hardly felt there.

[Eddie Teach]

Yeah agreed - but they're not like a typical French protest - e.g. block the streets because they're fucking with our pensions - or BLM where there is a single galvanising issue.

BLM isn't a single issue. It's a single motte and ten thousand bailies.

Yeah, I'm curious what you'd say is the issue. If it's simply "police shouldn't kill black people" then they won before they started- that is already illegal. When it comes to actions the government can take, there isn't a clear unified message.

[garbon]

Yeah agreed - but they're not like a typical French protest - e.g. block the streets because they're fucking with our pensions - or BLM where there is a single galvanising issue.

BLM isn't a single issue. It's a single motte and ten thousand bailies.

Yeah, I'm curious what you'd say is the issue. If it's simply "police shouldn't kill black people" then they won before they started- that is already illegal. When it comes to actions the government can take, there isn't a clear unified message.

[Oexmelin]

Yeah agreed - but they're not like a typical French protest - e.g. block the streets because they're fucking with our pensions - or BLM where there is a single galvanising issue.

BLM isn't a single issue. It's a single motte and ten thousand bailies.

Yeah, I'm curious what you'd say is the issue. If it's simply "police shouldn't kill black people" then they won before they started- that is already illegal. When it comes to actions the government can take, there isn't a clear unified message.

Clearly people can't be bothered.

[Eddie Teach]

Why don't you post a rebuttal then? 

What actionable demands is the movement making?

[Threviel]

Protests in France almost always work, mostly because of the disruption they cause. You need to hit the pocketbook. Block the infrastructure (don't destroy it). Stop going to work. The government always caves in.

France needs a Thatcher.

Coal mines are already closed, and having a Malouines-like war would be really a huge stroke of luck.

Also, history seems to look less and less kind on her. But still, a leader with the will and the skills to break the constant protests would be nice.