Russo-Ukrainian War 2014-26

[Sheilbh]

It's very in touch with modern warfare.

The drones are transformative but there absolutely are a lot of poor bloody infantry in entrenched positions on both sides. It's very back to the future.

[Crazy_Ivan80]

Aligned with Poland is potentially in question, given the historical tension between the two countries. Right wing Poles and right wing Ukranians apparently have a non-trivial number of grievances with each other.

Yeah and in fairness there are genuine issues - particularly around Ukraine ever joining the EU. I think basically every country would move to being a net contributor given how much poorer Ukraine is but it would lead to a huge shift in EU development spending out of Poland particularly - also Poland benefits a lot from current EU agriculture policies but those would not be plausible with an agricultural sector like Ukraine's.

None of it's impossible but I think there are problems that would need to be managed - or to be blunt about it there would be losers (and more in Poland than anywhere else) who you need to compensate or treat fairly (and be seen to treat fairly/help).

even so, we'll need to lock Ukraine in. As odd as it is the EU will need to grow a bit of imperial spine so it's able to secure itself and its near-abroad against the sharks in the pond. That or be eaten.

[Zoupa]

When the dust settles, Ukraine will have the strongest army in Europe by a wide margin. It would be nonsensical not to bend over backwards to fast track their admission.

Good luck trying to sell having to make ANY sacrifice to the EU electorate though. My guess is they'll be hung out to dry.

[Valmy]

When the dust settles, Ukraine will have the strongest army in Europe by a wide margin. It would be nonsensical not to bend over backwards to fast track their admission.

Good luck trying to sell having to make ANY sacrifice to the EU electorate though. My guess is they'll be hung out to dry.

They need to do something. Ukraine is paying in blood to align with the West and break its being shackled to Russia.

But yes. It will take real sacrifices to turn things around for Ukraine.

[Zanza]

Europe never went all out in supporting Ukraine in this war. That will just continue after the war and Ukraine might eventually join, but not soon.

I think both the limited support during the war and the expected slow candidacy process are a strategic mistake.

That said, the EU must move away from having Liberum veto before serious further enlargement makes sense.

[HVC]

Folding Ukraine into NATO (or whatever nato becomes) would be a good thing. Not sure a speed run into the EU would be wise. In the future who knows, but you really have to see how things shake out. Didn't exactly have the most trustworthy political structure before the shit hit the fan and I can't imagine a half decade of war made they situation any better.

[Valmy]

There are other relationships Ukraine can have with the EU besides full membership right?

It might make sense for there to be a separate defensive European alliance that is more EU centered.

[Crazy_Ivan80]

Proposals for alternate style association are being floated so it is being thought about.
Undiscovered country as it where.

[Josquius]

It's very in touch with modern warfare.

The drones are transformative but there absolutely are a lot of poor bloody infantry in entrenched positions on both sides. It's very back to the future.

Yeah that's the point. Ukraine has shown this is how war works now.
At the start of the war that was absolutely not the consensus. The belief was still in mobility from NATO and artillery destroying everything followed by tank columns moving in from Russia.