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Russo-Ukrainian War 2014-25

Started by mongers, August 06, 2014, 03:12:53 PM

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The Brain

Quote from: HVC on March 08, 2022, 04:33:33 PM
Quote from: The Brain on March 08, 2022, 04:31:34 PMI got top marks in thermodynamics at university. :smarty:

I worked for 5 years and a industrial refrigeration company. Want a job in Canada? Pay sucks and we stick you in the basement if you're an engineer :D

Oh. Canada. :(
Women want me. Men want to be with me.

Zanza

Geothermal heat pumps exist here as well, but those necessitate certain preconditions and it is not always sensible/cost-effective to make the deep drill you need for that.

The "normal" heat pump is the same physical principle as the 95% case Otto describes. But as we do not have airducts in our houses, but instead pipes to circulate water, the energy from the heat pump is used to heat water in a boiler tank.

In my house this heated water is used for both the under-floor heating and also for faucets/showers. The heat pump gets its energy from solar panels or if necessary the grid.

HVC

Mini splits don't require air ducts, just a unit in the room(s) requiring heating and cooling. Freon is circulated to these units to heat or cool the coils. Though in very large systems glycol is used .

Air ducted heating and cooling can also be used, but not ideal in retrofits.
Being lazy is bad; unless you still get what you want, then it's called "patience".
Hubris must be punished. Severely.

HVC

Quote from: The Brain on March 08, 2022, 04:34:53 PM
Quote from: HVC on March 08, 2022, 04:33:33 PM
Quote from: The Brain on March 08, 2022, 04:31:34 PMI got top marks in thermodynamics at university. :smarty:

I worked for 5 years and a industrial refrigeration company. Want a job in Canada? Pay sucks and we stick you in the basement if you're an engineer :D

Oh. Canada. :(

The alternative is living in Sweden lol
Being lazy is bad; unless you still get what you want, then it's called "patience".
Hubris must be punished. Severely.

Zanza

Quote from: HVC on March 08, 2022, 04:45:12 PMMini splits don't require air ducts, just a unit in the room(s) requiring heating and cooling. Freon is circulated to these units to heat or cool the coils. Though in very large systems glycol is used .

Air ducted heating and cooling can also be used, but not ideal in retrofits.
Mini splits exist here as well, but are rare, and are from what I can tell almost only meant for cooling, not for heating. In a normal shared condo in Germany you would not be allowed to install a mini split thanks to a governance mechanism a bit similar to an American HOA.

OttoVonBismarck

Yeah, most likely these heat pumps would require mini-splits you can use them for heating too, I think in Europe mini-splits are the only common type of AC anyone has since the homes aren't ducted, and most homes already had a heating system so people are buying mini-split AC units that aren't bidirectional heat pumps.

The boiler system you described would be considered highly unacceptable as a solution in the United States. One reason only large and old apartment buildings here have boilers is they are considered dangerous and require a certified boiler tech to work on them, which increases the costs on the building owner over other methods.

Generally speaking I would imagine Europeans if they actually wean themselves off of Russian gas will become a tad more familiar with some different HVAC systems, because I see it mentioned in a lot of "Green Energy" discussions that European housing in general is poorly made for energy efficiency and that it will ultimately have to be addressed for long term energy efficiency, but cutting off Russian gas might accelerate that process tremendously.

Zanza

What gives you the impression our housing is poorly made for energy efficiency? Per capita consumption of energy here is much lower than in North America (like half).

PS: I don't know if boiler is the right word. It's actually two tanks. One to heat water, one to store heated water.

alfred russel

Quote from: OttoVonBismarck on March 08, 2022, 03:32:03 PMA U.S. General has just stated he believes around 4000 Russian soldiers have died. While not as high as the Ukrainians had said it's a lot higher than I thought, I figured the 500ish in week 1 that the Kremlin disclosed seemed about right for a "bad" outcome given the relative military powers of the two countries. Four thousand in a week is a fucking disaster.

But why? A country with an economy about the size of Canada and more or less on its own straight up invaded a European country with a population of over 40 million, seemingly to militarily conquer it. The invaded country had forewarning and predictably has had a massive wave of patriotism. The international community is giving all sorts of military aid to their opponent.

Russia talks a lot of shit about how awesome it is, and our own defense industries have some incentive to echo them, but at the end of the day they invest dramatically less than we do in their military and every rouble they spend on some fancy fighter design is a rouble they aren't spending on communication equipment or military trucks or tires.
They who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety.

There's a fine line between salvation and drinking poison in the jungle.

I'm embarrassed. I've been making the mistake of associating with you. It won't happen again. :)
-garbon, February 23, 2014

HVC

Quote from: Zanza on March 08, 2022, 05:23:13 PMWhat gives you the impression our housing is poorly made for energy efficiency? Per capita consumption of energy here is much lower than in North America (like half).

PS: I don't know if boiler is the right word. It's actually two tanks. One to heat water, one to store heated water.


It appears that a major claim against switching over to non gas heating is insulation which would lead one to believe that houses are inefficient.

If you're using gas hotwater tank/boilers to heat homes through radiotors then heat pump water heater would be a great alternative.
Being lazy is bad; unless you still get what you want, then it's called "patience".
Hubris must be punished. Severely.

OttoVonBismarck

Quote from: alfred russel on March 08, 2022, 05:24:10 PM
Quote from: OttoVonBismarck on March 08, 2022, 03:32:03 PMA U.S. General has just stated he believes around 4000 Russian soldiers have died. While not as high as the Ukrainians had said it's a lot higher than I thought, I figured the 500ish in week 1 that the Kremlin disclosed seemed about right for a "bad" outcome given the relative military powers of the two countries. Four thousand in a week is a fucking disaster.

But why? A country with an economy about the size of Canada and more or less on its own straight up invaded a European country with a population of over 40 million, seemingly to militarily conquer it. The invaded country had forewarning and predictably has had a massive wave of patriotism. The international community is giving all sorts of military aid to their opponent.

Russia talks a lot of shit about how awesome it is, and our own defense industries have some incentive to echo them, but at the end of the day they invest dramatically less than we do in their military and every rouble they spend on some fancy fighter design is a rouble they aren't spending on communication equipment or military trucks or tires.

They lost 15,000 in 10 years in Afghanistan, if they lost 4000 in a week it's a disaster even relative to how poor Russia is.

OttoVonBismarck

Quote from: Zanza on March 08, 2022, 05:23:13 PMWhat gives you the impression our housing is poorly made for energy efficiency? Per capita consumption of energy here is much lower than in North America (like half).

PS: I don't know if boiler is the right word. It's actually two tanks. One to heat water, one to store heated water.


Boiler is probably the right word, a residential boiler system would work as you describe. And Americans use energy to cool and heat throughout the year, most Europeans do not cool their homes at all. European homes are also on average must smaller, which means less energy needed to heat / light etc. The average home in the United States is 201 m2 vs 76m2 in the UK or 109m2 in Germany.

And I generally know European homes are less energy efficient--I spent years of my life in European countries and rented housing in places like the UK when stationed there when I was young and in the military. Single pane windows, virtually no sealing out of drafts, very limited insulation are the norm in the housing stock there unless it has changed massively in 25 years. All of these things mean a home is less energy efficient. That doesn't mean they would necessarily use more energy than an American home. American homes are large and often profligate users of energy on silly shit that isn't necessary (there's American homes that heat their swimming pools etc in winter which is extremely wasteful of energy.) European behaviors and the fact they don't require cooling mean they're using less energy, but the housing stock in Europe in general has serious efficiency issues that could realize significant energy savings were it to be addressed.

Admiral Yi

Quote from: Zanza on March 08, 2022, 05:23:13 PMWhat gives you the impression our housing is poorly made for energy efficiency? Per capita consumption of energy here is much lower than in North America (like half).

I don't have an opinion on relative energy efficiency, but you're not factoring in relative weather extremity.

Barrister

Quote from: OttoVonBismarck on March 08, 2022, 05:30:04 PM
Quote from: alfred russel on March 08, 2022, 05:24:10 PM
Quote from: OttoVonBismarck on March 08, 2022, 03:32:03 PMA U.S. General has just stated he believes around 4000 Russian soldiers have died. While not as high as the Ukrainians had said it's a lot higher than I thought, I figured the 500ish in week 1 that the Kremlin disclosed seemed about right for a "bad" outcome given the relative military powers of the two countries. Four thousand in a week is a fucking disaster.

But why? A country with an economy about the size of Canada and more or less on its own straight up invaded a European country with a population of over 40 million, seemingly to militarily conquer it. The invaded country had forewarning and predictably has had a massive wave of patriotism. The international community is giving all sorts of military aid to their opponent.

Russia talks a lot of shit about how awesome it is, and our own defense industries have some incentive to echo them, but at the end of the day they invest dramatically less than we do in their military and every rouble they spend on some fancy fighter design is a rouble they aren't spending on communication equipment or military trucks or tires.

They lost 15,000 in 10 years in Afghanistan, if they lost 4000 in a week it's a disaster even relative to how poor Russia is.

4,000 US soldiers died during the entirety of the invasion and occupation of Iraq.  (31,000 injured).

Absolutely a disaster.
Posts here are my own private opinions.  I do not speak for my employer.

Barrister

Okay so it's Twitter, but seems to check out: News posted in Russian by BBC Russia, re-posted in English by CNN reporter:

Russians limited to withdrawing up to $10k US from Russian banks.  Anything beyond that will be converted to rubles.

https://twitter.com/biannagolodryga/status/1501323321203298305


Russia is seizing the large majority of any $US held by it's citizens.
Posts here are my own private opinions.  I do not speak for my employer.

The Brain

Why doesn't Putin prefer glorious Russian money? :hmm:
Women want me. Men want to be with me.