Russo-Ukrainian War 2014-25

[Tonitrus]

More like "Putin on the blitz". 

[Legbiter]

Well, Gondor definitely needs Rohan or The Ring.

This reminds me, about a year ago the Finns released a counter-psyop (Russia had recently been above average obnoxious to them) aimed at repelling what looks like a Russian military attack. All the baddies the Finns are valiantly killing by land, sea and air are suspiciously Russian looking as are the full-spectrum salami tactics employed against the Finns. 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bTmWCbcYwb8

*edit* Are those F-18's the Finns are flying?*

[viper37]

*edit* Are those F-18's the Finns are flying?*

Yes:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sgltp-WM_YU

[mongers]

I see Putin more as a Smaug the dragon figure.

[Tonitrus]

Peace in our time!

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-56842763

Russia to pull troops back from near Ukraine

[The Brain]

That's why it's called apeacement.

[mongers]

Glad that settled down, I wonder if it could be considered that Biden 'faced him down'?

[11B4V]

Sounds like a good topic for GMT's Next War Series.....

[DGuller]

Glad that settled down, I wonder if it could be considered that Biden 'faced him down'?

I don't think anyone knows what Putin's game plan was.  Maybe reminding the world that he can make them sweat about what he's going to do was his intention all along.

[Sheilbh]

Glad that settled down, I wonder if it could be considered that Biden 'faced him down'?

Maybe - but Biden did agree to a one-on-one summit with Putin which is normally considered a win for Putin.

[The Brain]

Glad that settled down, I wonder if it could be considered that Biden 'faced him down'?

Maybe - but Biden did agree to a one-on-one summit with Putin which is normally considered a win for Putin.

Ah, but unlike the previous POTUS Biden speaks and understands English.

[Zanza]

Glad that settled down, I wonder if it could be considered that Biden 'faced him down'?

Maybe - but Biden did agree to a one-on-one summit with Putin which is normally considered a win for Putin.

A US president meeting the leader of a great power when there is something to talk about seems business as usual. How is that a win for Putin?

[Sheilbh]

A US president meeting the leader of a great power when there is something to talk about seems business as usual. How is that a win for Putin?

I think it's the one-on-one summit nature of it - so it's not Biden visiting Russia or Putin visiting the US, but both going to a neutral location for negotiations.

My understanding is the US's preference is more multilateral meetings, and possibly talk on the sidelines like at APAC meetings, the UN or G20 etc. The Russian preference is to re-ignite that Cold War feeling of being one of the world's two powers by having a one-on-one in Reykjavik. In addition it excludes the French and Germans who ae the Minsk Protocol partners - so Europe's security and borders is an issue for the US and Russia to negotiate again. I've no doubt Biden's team will be in close contact with Paris and Berlin, but visually it's not great.

This is nowhere near as extreme but it's a bit like how Trump agreeing to the Singapore summit with Kim Jong-Un was a diplomatic accomplishment for North Korea. The US - and other countries - generally don't seem to do summit diplomacy that much anymore, the only other example I can think of in recent years was North Korea.

And the other point I suppose is that the Russians will use this - we know how aggressive they are in using diplomatic events, the recent Borrell trip to Moscow was an incredible example. During the press conference the Russians announced that they were expelling a load of European diplomats, Lavrov had a real go at the EU for being an "unreliable partner" (), accused European leaders of lying about Navalny - that sort of performance is what Russia often does at diplomatic events where they have the world's press. I'm sure the US is aware and Biden will be prepared for it and I think you need to have a response ready, but Borrell wasn't and it didn't look great - a lot of MEPs were very unhappy. Admittedly with Borrell I think something similar had happened the month before in Ankara so there was maybe a sense that it might become a worrying trend for him.

[Tamas]

Glad that settled down, I wonder if it could be considered that Biden 'faced him down'?

Maybe - but Biden did agree to a one-on-one summit with Putin which is normally considered a win for Putin.

Ah, but unlike the previous POTUS Biden speaks and understands English.

Yeah I don't think Putin will learn as many US state secrets as the last meeting with the POTUS.

[Tamas]

A US president meeting the leader of a great power when there is something to talk about seems business as usual. How is that a win for Putin?

I think it's the one-on-one summit nature of it - so it's not Biden visiting Russia or Putin visiting the US, but both going to a neutral location for negotiations.

My understanding is the US's preference is more multilateral meetings, and possibly talk on the sidelines like at APAC meetings, the UN or G20 etc. The Russian preference is to re-ignite that Cold War feeling of being one of the world's two powers by having a one-on-one in Reykjavik. In addition it excludes the French and Germans who ae the Minsk Protocol partners - so Europe's security and borders is an issue for the US and Russia to negotiate again. I've no doubt Biden's team will be in close contact with Paris and Berlin, but visually it's not great.

This is nowhere near as extreme but it's a bit like how Trump agreeing to the Singapore summit with Kim Jong-Un was a diplomatic accomplishment for North Korea. The US - and other countries - generally don't seem to do summit diplomacy that much anymore, the only other example I can think of in recent years was North Korea.

And the other point I suppose is that the Russians will use this - we know how aggressive they are in using diplomatic events, the recent Borrell trip to Moscow was an incredible example. During the press conference the Russians announced that they were expelling a load of European diplomats, Lavrov had a real go at the EU for being an "unreliable partner" (), accused European leaders of lying about Navalny - that sort of performance is what Russia often does at diplomatic events where they have the world's press. I'm sure the US is aware and Biden will be prepared for it and I think you need to have a response ready, but Borrell wasn't and it didn't look great - a lot of MEPs were very unhappy. Admittedly with Borrell I think something similar had happened the month before in Ankara so there was maybe a sense that it might become a worrying trend for him.

I disagree. Such a meeting was a massive win for a regional troll like Kim of North Korea, but it is far closer to reality in case of US-Russia. Sure, it will be a reaffirmation of Putin's machismo back home but if Biden refused to meet that also would be used in Russia to confirm Putin's machismo.