Russo-Ukrainian War 2014-23 and Invasion

[Zanza]

Germany has now reduced its consumption of Russian oil from 35% of total consumption to 12%.  Only one refinery in North-Eastern Germany is connected to the Drushba pipeline and depends on Russian oil. Together with Poland they want to replace those remaining 12% "within days". Coal is also almost phased out, which leaves gas where consumption was already significantly reduced and they expect the first LNG terminals to come online this winter. The economy minister Habeck is doing an impressive job trying to fix the problems previous governments created.

[celedhring]

Kinda love these take-no-shit, ultra-efficient, German greens.

[Zanza]

I read somewhere that it was a good thing that his entire staff resigned when the war started, because that way nobody was there to tell him not to do that NYT piece, showing him in such a bad light.

A bit of a shame it took a huge profile in the NYT and international attention to prod the SPD into doing this.

There was massive criticism and distancing in the party before the article. Maybe not reported in the international press.

Personally I'm not totally clear why he's not sanctioned - in terms of all the worry about the influence of oligarchs on Western politics, Schroeder seems like a bigger, more influential figure in politics. He's still on the board of those Russian companies and I've not seen any sign he's adjusted his position.

He is an amoral asshole, but what he is doing is not yet illegal. The EU cannot sanction their own citizens.

[The Brain]

Germany has now reduced its consumption of Russian oil from 35% of total consumption to 12%.  Only one refinery in North-Eastern Germany is connected to the Drushba pipeline and depends on Russian oil. Together with Poland they want to replace those remaining 12% "within days". Coal is also almost phased out, which leaves gas where consumption was already significantly reduced and they expect the first LNG terminals to come online this winter. The economy minister Habeck is doing an impressive job trying to fix the problems previous governments created.

Nice.

[The Larch]

Anyone know what kind of bank he's making?

The article gives a couple of quotes:

- $270k per year for chairing NordStream's shareholder committee.
- $600k per year for heading Rosneft's board.
- $9k per month as stipend from being a former German chancellor.

[Habbaku]

Seems such a paltry payout for basically betraying one's country and Western principles in general.

[The Larch]

Seems such a paltry payout for basically betraying one's country and Western principles in general.

Westerners have been caught red handed handling confidential information to hostile foreign countries for a few thousand bucks a piece, I guess that people's consciences are much cheaper than one would think.

[The Larch]

Your tax dollars at work. 

Russian state TV says it has discovered an "organisation of gays and lesbians" in a building in Mariupol where Ukrainian "nationalist battalions" had been based

It was apparently "funded by USAID" and "virtually under the patronage of the US President and Congress"

https://twitter.com/francska1/status/1518916591299309569

[The Minsky Moment]

Seems such a paltry payout for basically betraying one's country and Western principles in general.

Did he get stock?

[Zanza]

I think by now Schröder is just a grumpy old asshole who cannot admit he is wrong. He cannot really need the money.

[Sheilbh]

Kinda love these take-no-shit, ultra-efficient, German greens.

Yeah - the German Greens are really good. I like them a lot

There was massive criticism and distancing in the party before the article. Maybe not reported in the international press.

Oh no doubt - but I think he was only actually kicked out the day after the NYT profile came out.

The article gives a couple of quotes:

- $270k per year for chairing NordStream's shareholder committee.
- $600k per year for heading Rosneft's board.
- $9k per month as stipend from being a former German chancellor.

Although that's regular payments so excludes bonuses, share options and benefits in kind.

He is an amoral asshole, but what he is doing is not yet illegal. The EU cannot sanction their own citizens.

I get that for the EU - but it seems an option for other countries. I don't think sanctions are for people who've committed crimes necessarily (that's what criminal law is for) it's more if they are profiting or getting material benefit from this war or Putin's regime/political operation.

Westerners have been caught red handed handling confidential information to hostile foreign countries for a few thousand bucks a piece, I guess that people's consciences are much cheaper than one would think.

Yeah. Although with Schroeder - I suspect that he genuinely thought (and possibly still thinks) that it's the right policy.

He wants to make money for sure - he's said as much. But I suspect he still genuinely believes he is following in the footsteps of Brandt and still probably believes in transformation through engagement. I think he's wrong on those but I think there is probably a part that is still ideological/a believe on this - or it might just be psychologically difficult to admit that at the pinnacle of your career you were wrong.

[Zanza]

German now wants to deliver Gepard flak panzers. Which is bizarre as one of the previous arguments was that only weapons that need little training should be delivered. But the Gepard needs a lot of training with its radar guided main weapons. 

[celedhring]

Are SPAAGs still a thing? 

Ah well, doesn't look like the Russians have many standoff munitions so they may notch some kills.

[Zanza]

There was massive criticism and distancing in the party before the article. Maybe not reported in the international press.

Oh no doubt - but I think he was only actually kicked out the day after the NYT profile came out.

He was not kicked out. Removing party members against their will is a long process with arbitration etc. in Germany. 

He is an amoral asshole, but what he is doing is not yet illegal. The EU cannot sanction their own citizens.

I get that for the EU - but it seems an option for other countries. I don't think sanctions are for people who've committed crimes necessarily (that's what criminal law is for) it's more if they are profiting or getting material benefit from this war or Putin's regime/political operation.

Sure, UK or US could sanction him, but I guess they don't want to sanction a former chancellor out of respect for the office.

But I suspect he still genuinely believes he is following in the footsteps of Brandt and still probably believes in transformation through engagement. I think he's wrong on those but I think there is probably a part that is still ideological/a believe on this - or it might just be psychologically difficult to admit that at the pinnacle of your career you were wrong.

This. Very similar for Merkel by the way.

[Zanza]

Are SPAAGs still a thing? 

Ah well, doesn't look like the Russians have many standoff munitions so they may notch some kills.

The Russians seem to fly low and have few smart bombs. The Gepard seems to be a reasonable counter for that.