The Islamic State in Iraq and the Levant Megathread

[Malthus]

The point of denying them their territory is to make it so that they cannot claim that THEY are the caliphate, and hence attract a lot of people who otherwise would just look at them as yet another radical group trying to become legitimate.

Right now their success allows them to make that claim, and it is clearly having a very profound effect on their ability to recruit and maintain credibility.

Well, I agree with that, and in general with crushing them like ants if at all possible.

My critique is aimed at this, from the article:

One way to un-cast the Islamic State's spell over its adherents would be to overpower it militarily and occupy the parts of Syria and Iraq now under caliphate rule. Al‑Qaeda is ineradicable because it can survive, cockroach-like, by going underground. The Islamic State cannot. If it loses its grip on its territory in Syria and Iraq, it will cease to be a caliphate. Caliphates cannot exist as underground movements, because territorial authority is a requirement: take away its command of territory, and all those oaths of allegiance are no longer binding.

This is talking about the effect of occupying territory on its own existing adherents - part of the 'if you know your enemies' ideology, you can better defeat them' thesis. My point is it ain't necessarily that simple - religious fanatics can, and do, change with changed factual circumstances.

[Baron von Schtinkenbutt]

If every religious nutter declared their nuttery over and done with when it ran into a factual contradiction, religious nutters would be much less of a problem. To give an easy example - any millenial movement that actually anticipated the "end times" happening soon, or on a defined date. Many of them are, unsurprisingly, still around.

Interesting article on the subject.

One can definitely see the parallels between ISIS and the various Christian End Times cults.

[Admiral Yi]

I can see one.

[Ed Anger]

Egyptian Special Forces reportedly in action in Derna Libya.

[mongers]

Egyptian Special Forces reportedly in action in Derna Libya.

Yets just hope there aren't any Boeing 737s involved.

[derspiess]

So that State Department chick really said we needed to fight ISIS by offering a jobs program?  Well, clearly ISIS needs green jobs.

[Admiral Yi]

That has to be a bad paraphrase.

[CountDeMoney]

That has to be a bad paraphrase.

From derFoxNews?  Imagine that.

Long term solutions against extremism requires these nations have stronger economies, to provide opportunities that prevent people from joining these groups = ISIS needs green jobs ZOMGROFLOBAMA

[jimmy olsen]

A lot of the guys traveling from the West to Syria/Iraq had jobs.

[Razgovory]

I saw a fragment of Fox News last night.  They were bitching that Obama hasn't declared war on all Muslims yet.

[mongers]

That has to be a bad paraphrase.

From derFoxNews?  Imagine that.

Long term solutions against extremism requires these nations have stronger economies, to provide opportunities that prevent people from joining these groups = ISIS needs green jobs ZOMGROFLOBAMA

Yeah, Obama's plans for solar power stations is just cover for recruiting more jihadis to his cause.

[CountDeMoney]

A lot of the guys traveling from the West to Syria/Iraq had jobs.

That's nice.  Not what we're discussing, but nice.

[jimmy olsen]

Turkey hates Asad more than anything, some I think the possibility of significant amounts of Turkish gear ending up in the hands of Islamist rebels is likely.

http://bigstory.ap.org/article/e4083f2e5977428a95623248aaeef3fe/us-embassy-turkey-us-sign-deal-train-arm-syrian-rebels

US Embassy: Turkey, US sign deal to train, arm Syrian rebels
By DESMOND BUTLER
Feb. 19, 2015 3:14 PM EST

ISTANBUL (AP) — Turkey and the United States signed an agreement Thursday to train and arm Syrian rebels fighting the Islamic State group, said the U.S. Embassy in Ankara.

The two countries have been in talks about such a pact for several months. The deal was signed Thursday evening by U.S Ambassador John Bass and Turkish Foreign Ministry undersecretary Feridun Sinirlioglu, said Embassy spokesman Joe Wierichs. He gave no further details.

Sinirlioglu called the deal "an important step" in the strategic partnership between Turkey and the United States, according to Turkish state-run Anadolu Agency.

The Turkish government has said the training by U.S. and Turkish soldiers could begin as early as next month at a base in the central Anatolian city of Kirsehir, and involve hundreds of Syrian fighters in the first year. The U.S. has said the goal is to go after the Islamic State group, but Turkish officials have suggested that the trained rebels could also target the Syrian government of President Bashar Assad.

With its 750 mile border on Syria, Turkey is a key part of the U.S.-led coalition against the Islamic State group. But negotiations with the U.S. over what to do about the Islamic militants have been fraught with disagreement — with Turkey insisting that the coalition needs to also target the Assad government.

On Tuesday, Turkish Foreign Minister Mevlut Cavusoglu said in a press conference that Turkey expected that the trained rebels will also fight the Syrian regime. Turkey is already training Kurdish Peshmerga fighters in Northern Iraq, who have been battling Islamic State militants.

It is not clear who will decide which rebels will receive the training. U.S. and Turkish officials have not always been in agreement about which of the disparate rebel groups in Syria should be considered moderate.

On Wednesday, the U.S. Defense Department said that the U.S. has screened about 1,200 moderate Syrian rebels to participate in training in Turkey, Saudia Arabia and Qatar. The U.S. Congress passed legislation authorizing the training and providing $500 million for training about 5,000 rebels over the next year.

___

AP writer Suzan Fraser contributed from Ankara.

[derspiess]

That has to be a bad paraphrase.

From derFoxNews?  Imagine that.

Long term solutions against extremism requires these nations have stronger economies, to provide opportunities that prevent people from joining these groups = ISIS needs green jobs ZOMGROFLOBAMA

The green jobs thing was my little addition.  Because as we all know everyone could use some more green jobs.

[Razgovory]

So you said something untrue?  Wait, can a conservative make things up about Obama?  Has that ever happened before?