The Islamic State in Iraq and the Levant Megathread

[OttoVonBismarck]

I think the latest events in the Middle East show that nationalism is a force to respect, whether we approve of it or not.  Countries are not just artificial abstracts, they must have a reason for existing.  Otherwise what you get is a clusterfuck of a country like Iraq, where the best military equipment in the world isn't going to help defend in, because it sits abandoned by the people feeling no loyalty or dedication to a fake construct.

In a timeline where I'm god-emperor Iraq as we know it wouldn't exist, the West had several opportunities to draw a country in that region better, and failed each time.

But that doesn't extend to me thinking Turkey should have to give up some of its territory in the East to Kurdistan. That shit's been Turkish controlled for like 800 years, I feel similarly about Catalonia for example.

[Razgovory]

I'm trying to figure out a world where Otto is God-emperor.  I'm guessing it has some sort of saturnalia festival. 

[mongers]

I'm trying to figure out a world where Otto is God-emperor.  I'm guessing it has some sort of saturnalia festival.

15ft x 12ft; it's routine for civil servants to have delusions of grandeur.

[Crazy_Ivan80]

This belief largely fueled the fires of the two World Wars and lots of terrible things in addition to those.

seems to me that much of the so-called nationalism of the world wars was more imperialism and chauvenism rather than bona-fide nationalism. After all, what does it matter to the nationalist of country A what people of country B do in their own country?

[Martinus]

This belief largely fueled the fires of the two World Wars and lots of terrible things in addition to those.

seems to me that much of the so-called nationalism of the world wars was more imperialism and chauvenism rather than bona-fide nationalism. After all, what does it matter to the nationalist of country A what people of country B do in their own country?

That's funny coming from a Belgian.

[Crazy_Ivan80]

This belief largely fueled the fires of the two World Wars and lots of terrible things in addition to those.

seems to me that much of the so-called nationalism of the world wars was more imperialism and chauvenism rather than bona-fide nationalism. After all, what does it matter to the nationalist of country A what people of country B do in their own country?

That's funny coming from a Belgian.

what is this Belgium you speak of?

[Martinus]

Precisely my point. Nationalists very rarely agree with each other when one nation begins and another ends.

[Crazy_Ivan80]

Precisely my point. Nationalists very rarely agree with each other when one nation begins and another ends.

which brings us back to imperialism and chauvinism, neither of which are nationalism

[dps]

I think the latest events in the Middle East show that nationalism is a force to respect, whether we approve of it or not.  Countries are not just artificial abstracts, they must have a reason for existing.  Otherwise what you get is a clusterfuck of a country like Iraq, where the best military equipment in the world isn't going to help defend in, because it sits abandoned by the people feeling no loyalty or dedication to a fake construct.

In a timeline where I'm god-emperor Iraq as we know it wouldn't exist, the West had several opportunities to draw a country in that region better, and failed each time.

But that doesn't extend to me thinking Turkey should have to give up some of its territory in the East to Kurdistan. That shit's been Turkish controlled for like 800 years, I feel similarly about Catalonia for example.

Well, the fact is that Catalonia hasn't been Turkish controlled for 800 years.  How you feel about that doesn't change it.

[Admiral Yi]

which brings us back to imperialism and chauvinism, neither of which are nationalism

How is ethnic chauvinism different from nationalism?

[Valmy]

Precisely my point. Nationalists very rarely agree with each other when one nation begins and another ends.

which brings us back to imperialism and chauvinism, neither of which are nationalism

Nonsense.  Nationalism is chauvinism given political expression.

[grumbler]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TfPMXG9L7eA

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stoning_of_Du%27a_Khalil_Aswad

Yeah, they're light years ahead of those ISIS neanderthals.

I think you're confusing geopolitical strategic enemies with "people who are barbaric." If we only want to associate with non-Barbaric countries we could only associate with the OECD, but that's unrealistic. Bad shit happens in India and China all the time, both promoted by government and sometimes when their peasant classes fall into medieval style behavior. Should we say they're no different than ISIS? ISIS represents a geopolitical threat to our interests in the Middle East, the Kurds are allies. I'm confused how you don't see this.

I'm confused how you don't see that you are responding to Fate.

[grumbler]

Precisely my point. Nationalists very rarely agree with each other when one nation begins and another ends.

which brings us back to imperialism and chauvinism, neither of which are nationalism

Nonsense.  Nationalism is chauvinism given political expression.

  Nationalism is chauvinism, pure and simple.  That's what chauvinism is.  "Male chauvinism" is simply a borrowing of the term for nationalism and making it about males rather than nations.

[Jacob]

Apparently some biker gangs from Europe are sending members to fight with the Kurds against the ISIS. Though it appears that some of the bikers are Kurds, so it makes some sense: om/2014/11/18/european-biker-gangs-say-their-members-are-joining-the-fight-against-isis/

[Crazy_Ivan80]

Apparently some biker gangs from Europe are sending members to fight with the Kurds against the ISIS. Though it appears that some of the bikers are Kurds, so it makes some sense: om/2014/11/18/european-biker-gangs-say-their-members-are-joining-the-fight-against-isis/

yeah, i've seen articles about that float by. Was about some Dutch guys then. I've also seen an article about some americans (ex-military even) that wen to help the Kurds. Far less people than went of and join the Hordes of course