The Islamic State in Iraq and the Levant Megathread

[Viking]

All this bullshit about no US boots on the ground while the Army of the Republic of Viet Nam the Iraqi Army carries the load is exactly that:  bullshit.

At least the ARVN put up a fight for awhile.

Well that was my point, and one that Viking in his inimitable style completely failed to pick up.

Hell, I actually remember seeing the TV news reports of the fighting in 1975.

I wasn't endorsing the view, just observing it exists.

[grumbler]

Well that was my point, and one that Viking in his inimitable style completely failed to pick up.

Hell, I actually remember seeing the TV news reports of the fighting in 1975.

I wasn't endorsing the view, just observing it exists.

It's mongers.  Just read his stuff and move on.  Don't try to understand it; that way lies madness.

[mongers]

Well that was my point, and one that Viking in his inimitable style completely failed to pick up.

Hell, I actually remember seeing the TV news reports of the fighting in 1975.

I wasn't endorsing the view, just observing it exists.

It's mongers.  Just read his stuff and move on.  Don't try to understand it; that way lies madness.

It's Grumbler. He'll be dead soon and sadly the forum will just get a little bit more pleasant. 

[DGuller]

It's Grumbler. He'll be dead soon and sadly the forum will just get a little bit more pleasant. 

They've been saying that since the Roman times, and it still hasn't happened.

[KRonn]

WMDs were found in Iraq after all, thousands of them, mostly old now. Findings kept a secret by the Bush admin and apparently also by the Obama admin. Why?
Now also fears that ISIL has gotten hold of some before Iraqi govt. could destroy them. Seeing some reports of ISIL using chemical weapons though, and worried if they can sneak some of the chemicals into other countries.

http://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2014/10/14/world/middleeast/us-casualties-of-iraq-chemical-weapons.html?hp&action=click&pgtype=Homepage&version=Banner&module=span-ab-top-region&region=top-news&WT.nav=top-news&_r=0

As Iraq has been shaken anew by violence, and past security gains have collapsed amid Sunni-Shiite bloodletting and the rise of the Islamic State, this long-hidden chronicle illuminates the persistent risks of the country's abandoned chemical weapons.

Many chemical weapons incidents clustered around the ruins of the Muthanna State Establishment, the center of Iraqi chemical agent production in the 1980s.

Since June, the compound has been held by the Islamic State, the world's most radical and violent jihadist group.

In a letter sent to the United Nations this summer, the Iraqi government said that about 2,500 corroded chemical rockets remained on the grounds, and that Iraqi officials had witnessed intruders looting equipment before militants shut down the surveillance cameras. 

[Malthus]

WMDs were found in Iraq after all, thousands of them, mostly old now. Findings kept a secret by the Bush admin and apparently also by the Obama admin. Why?
Now also fears that ISIL has gotten hold of some before Iraqi govt. could destroy them. Seeing some reports of ISIL using chemical weapons though, and worried if they can sneak some of the chemicals into other countries.

http://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2014/10/14/world/middleeast/us-casualties-of-iraq-chemical-weapons.html?hp&action=click&pgtype=Homepage&version=Banner&module=span-ab-top-region&region=top-news&WT.nav=top-news&_r=0

As Iraq has been shaken anew by violence, and past security gains have collapsed amid Sunni-Shiite bloodletting and the rise of the Islamic State, this long-hidden chronicle illuminates the persistent risks of the country's abandoned chemical weapons.

Many chemical weapons incidents clustered around the ruins of the Muthanna State Establishment, the center of Iraqi chemical agent production in the 1980s.

Since June, the compound has been held by the Islamic State, the world's most radical and violent jihadist group.

In a letter sent to the United Nations this summer, the Iraqi government said that about 2,500 corroded chemical rockets remained on the grounds, and that Iraqi officials had witnessed intruders looting equipment before militants shut down the surveillance cameras. 

My admittedly uninformed understanding was that chemical weapons lose their potency if stored improperly for too long. If so, these may be duds.

[Berkut]

Less potent chemical weapons I suspect could still be rather dangerous, even if militarily not effective any longer.

[Malthus]

Less potent chemical weapons I suspect could still be rather dangerous, even if militarily not effective any longer.

Certainly dangerous for those attempting to "loot" a bunch of old corroding poison gas rockets.  Hell, they may be doing everyone a favour, playing around with that stuff!  That is, assuming any accident harms only them.

[Viking]

WMDs were found in Iraq after all, thousands of them, mostly old now. Findings kept a secret by the Bush admin and apparently also by the Obama admin. Why?
Now also fears that ISIL has gotten hold of some before Iraqi govt. could destroy them. Seeing some reports of ISIL using chemical weapons though, and worried if they can sneak some of the chemicals into other countries.

http://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2014/10/14/world/middleeast/us-casualties-of-iraq-chemical-weapons.html?hp&action=click&pgtype=Homepage&version=Banner&module=span-ab-top-region&region=top-news&WT.nav=top-news&_r=0

As Iraq has been shaken anew by violence, and past security gains have collapsed amid Sunni-Shiite bloodletting and the rise of the Islamic State, this long-hidden chronicle illuminates the persistent risks of the country's abandoned chemical weapons.

Many chemical weapons incidents clustered around the ruins of the Muthanna State Establishment, the center of Iraqi chemical agent production in the 1980s.

Since June, the compound has been held by the Islamic State, the world's most radical and violent jihadist group.

In a letter sent to the United Nations this summer, the Iraqi government said that about 2,500 corroded chemical rockets remained on the grounds, and that Iraqi officials had witnessed intruders looting equipment before militants shut down the surveillance cameras. 

My admittedly uninformed understanding was that chemical weapons lose their potency if stored improperly for too long. If so, these may be duds.

Depends on which kind and how long and under which conditions.

[KRonn]

I assume many of the weapons, shells, are now ineffective for their intended use but I would think the worry is if the chemicals can be removed to be used in another way, depending on which chems and how long they retain some potency. Dangerous to remove the stuff but all of ISIL isn't just a rag tag bunch of incompetents.

[Berkut]

Less potent chemical weapons I suspect could still be rather dangerous, even if militarily not effective any longer.

Certainly dangerous for those attempting to "loot" a bunch of old corroding poison gas rockets.  Hell, they may be doing everyone a favour, playing around with that stuff!  That is, assuming any accident harms only them.

I think the people ordering the people to obtain these weapons don't care too much how dangerous it is for them.

But a old shell full of sarin or tabun or mustard gas I imagine would be rather dangerous in an enclosed area, so a theater or something like that.

[CountDeMoney]

Chlorine and mustard agents have a tremendous half-life as opposed to Zyklon-Ed, which has a half-life of approximately 8 hours after Taco Bell.

[Ed Anger]

Chlorine and mustard agents have a tremendous half-life as opposed to Zyklon-Ed, which has a half-life of approximately 8 hours after Taco Bell.

MK II Dutch Oven

[Crazy_Ivan80]

WMDs were found in Iraq after all, thousands of them, mostly old now. Findings kept a secret by the Bush admin and apparently also by the Obama admin. Why?
Now also fears that ISIL has gotten hold of some before Iraqi govt. could destroy them. Seeing some reports of ISIL using chemical weapons though, and worried if they can sneak some of the chemicals into other countries.

http://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2014/10/14/world/middleeast/us-casualties-of-iraq-chemical-weapons.html?hp&action=click&pgtype=Homepage&version=Banner&module=span-ab-top-region&region=top-news&WT.nav=top-news&_r=0

As Iraq has been shaken anew by violence, and past security gains have collapsed amid Sunni-Shiite bloodletting and the rise of the Islamic State, this long-hidden chronicle illuminates the persistent risks of the country's abandoned chemical weapons.

Many chemical weapons incidents clustered around the ruins of the Muthanna State Establishment, the center of Iraqi chemical agent production in the 1980s.

Since June, the compound has been held by the Islamic State, the world's most radical and violent jihadist group.

In a letter sent to the United Nations this summer, the Iraqi government said that about 2,500 corroded chemical rockets remained on the grounds, and that Iraqi officials had witnessed intruders looting equipment before militants shut down the surveillance cameras. 

My admittedly uninformed understanding was that chemical weapons lose their potency if stored improperly for too long. If so, these may be duds.

depends on the type.
During a dig in Poperinge, on an old allied logistics-center of WW1 we retrieved some 7 tonnes of munitions, most of it chemical in nature.
During one incident there was a suspected leak from the shells. The bombdisposal squad that was a near permanent fixture of our dig got into their spacesuits pronto and we got to the other side of the terrain (500 m away).
Luckily no phosphor or unstable detonators were in that dump (we got that junk elsewhere) or things might have gotten a bit hairy

[derspiess]

MK II Dutch Oven

To which I'm guessing Mrs. Ed has built up an immunity to by this point.