The Islamic State in Iraq and the Levant Megathread

[Agelastus]

US says, "Turkey totally lets us attack from Incirlik AFB,  just some details to be hashed out!"

Turkey says, "LOLWUT?!? Nope."

Aye, Turkey is saying that they won't let us use it unless we also go after the Assad regime.

Why the fuck doesn't Turkey go after the Assad regime?  The state that Syria is right now, they could probably roll into Damascus by the end of the month.  And probably meet cheering crowds much of the way.

(1) The hangover from the Ottoman period; there might be less cheering crowds than you think (or at least, that's probably what Turkey thinks.)

(2) The Kurds. Attacking Syria alone, especially at the moment, would equate in many people's eyes to specifically helping the Kurds. Said Kurds mostly want their own state. Turkey, for obvious reasons, does not want an independent Kurdish state on their border. Turkey wants the cover of someone else taking the lead for both domestic and international policy reasons. If said "lead power" or group of powers intends to maintain the Sykes-Picot borders (as the west does) all the better.

[CountDeMoney]

(2) The Kurds. Attacking Syria alone, especially at the moment, would equate in many people's eyes to specifically helping the Kurds.

Do you think that's what people would honestly believe, especially with the historic policies and stated politics of Turkey towards Kurds?

That's like a US invasion of Mexico would equate in many people's eyes to specifically helping illegal immigrants.  Just doesn't work.

[Agelastus]

(2) The Kurds. Attacking Syria alone, especially at the moment, would equate in many people's eyes to specifically helping the Kurds.

Do you think that's what people would honestly believe, especially with the historic policies and stated politics of Turkey towards Kurds?

That's like a US invasion of Mexico would equate in many people's eyes to specifically helping illegal immigrants.  Just doesn't work.

People's eyes in Turkey, certainly.

[KRonn]

US says, "Turkey totally lets us attack from Incirlik AFB,  just some details to be hashed out!"

Turkey says, "LOLWUT?!? Nope."

Aye, Turkey is saying that they won't let us use it unless we also go after the Assad regime.

Why the fuck doesn't Turkey go after the Assad regime?  The state that Syria is right now, they could probably roll into Damascus by the end of the month.  And probably meet cheering crowds much of the way.

Well, I'm sure Putin would be thrilled to have troops of a NATO country take on his buddy Assad.

Just steal his play book: "those aren't Turkish troops, they're tanks of the Free Syrian Army".   

Hehe....   

[KRonn]

Meanwhile back in Iraq:

Hit recently taken, Iraqi army abandons a major base outside, fails to adequately 'spike the guns left behind', so ISIL gains a few more tanks and artillery pieces. Iraqis pulling back to around Ramadi, one would like to think you could use the phrase consolidating their positions around the city, but I feel they're not capable of that.

Yeah, I saw that in the news. Iraqis calling it a tactical retreat, but it appears they gave up an important base and a strategic city.

[CountDeMoney]

All this bullshit about no US boots on the ground while the Army of the Republic of Viet Nam the Iraqi Army carries the load is exactly that:  bullshit.

[KRonn]

I would think that at the least we'd have special forces troops working with the Kurds and with some of whatever capable and trustworthy Iraqi forces are left. Those special forces troops to call in air strikes and work similar to what was done in Afghanistan, where it was all special forces working with local forces in a similar way. I'm assuming the US does have some troops doing just that already. That's to give time for the new Iraqi government to get going and for the Iraqi army to get some time to recover some.

Working with free Syrian forces seems a non starter anyway. Train them for a year and hope they do as the US wants, but hey, apparently focus on ISIL and not Assad? I don't really get that part of it. But Turkey will supposedly join if the US focus is on ousting Assad, a scenario that I don't think the US wants, given the track record of the previous couple of interventions, especially Libya which is now a failed state. Then that causes indirect or even direct confrontation with Russia and Iran, while recognizing that the Iranians also oppose ISIL, and both maybe even want some quiet cooperation vs ISIL. 

At the least send in the weapons the Kurds need. This far along and so far it's being reported that the US is still giving weapons to the Iraqi government with the idea they equip the Kurds, but that probably isn't happening as the Iraqis re-furbish their own forces. Even that has several sides to it. The Turks won't like it and it could further enable to Kurds to become more independent which will anger Iraq. But I still say make sure the Kurds are armed as right now they'er the only troops ready and willing to fight against ISIL

So many sides to this all. This has got to be among the most entangling and problematic events the US has ever taken on.   

[mongers]

All this bullshit about no US boots on the ground while the Army of the Republic of Viet Nam the Iraqi Army carries the load is exactly that:  bullshit.

That's an unfair comparison, the ARVN had a few really good units/divisions. 

[Viking]

All this bullshit about no US boots on the ground while the Army of the Republic of Viet Nam the Iraqi Army carries the load is exactly that:  bullshit.

That's an unfair comparison, the ARVN had a few really good units/divisions. 

The lost cause'ers of the Vietnam war claim that the ARVN collapsed because the US didn't give air support in 1975 when the war had been won in 1973. Don't know how true that was. But the Romanians at Stalingrad had Panzerschrek and it seems even ISIS gets AirpowerSchreck when they are being bombed at Kobani.

[mongers]

All this bullshit about no US boots on the ground while the Army of the Republic of Viet Nam the Iraqi Army carries the load is exactly that:  bullshit.

That's an unfair comparison, the ARVN had a few really good units/divisions. 

The lost cause'ers of the Vietnam war claim that the ARVN collapsed because the US didn't give air support in 1975 when the war had been won in 1973. Don't know how true that was. But the Romanians at Stalingrad had Panzerschrek and it seems even ISIS gets AirpowerSchreck when they are being bombed at Kobani.

Whoosh.

[Ed Anger]

All this bullshit about no US boots on the ground while the Army of the Republic of Viet Nam the Iraqi Army carries the load is exactly that:  bullshit.

At least the ARVN put up a fight for awhile.

[mongers]

All this bullshit about no US boots on the ground while the Army of the Republic of Viet Nam the Iraqi Army carries the load is exactly that:  bullshit.

At least the ARVN put up a fight for awhile.

Well that was my point, and one that Viking in his inimitable style completely failed to pick up.

Hell, I actually remember seeing the TV news reports of the fighting in 1975.

[mongers]

Relatively intense US airstrikes around Kobane are having a noticable effect:

14 October 2014 Last updated at 22:58

Islamic State crisis: US intensifies airs strikes in Kobane

US-led forces have stepped up air strikes against Islamic State (IS) fighters threatening the Syrian town of Kobane, near the Turkish border.

The coalition had carried out 21 strikes over two days, a sharp increase that slowed IS advances, the US said.

President Barack Obama predicted a "long-term campaign" against the group, which holds swathes of Syria and Iraq.
....

Full article with photos and video here:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-29617941

[jimmy olsen]

ISIS endorses slavery, murderous medieval fucks! 

http://www.theatlantic.com/international/archive/2014/10/isis-confirms-and-justifies-enslaving-yazidis-in-new-magazine-article/381394/

[Crazy_Ivan80]

ISIS endorses slavery, murderous medieval fucks! 

http://www.theatlantic.com/international/archive/2014/10/isis-confirms-and-justifies-enslaving-yazidis-in-new-magazine-article/381394/

you're surprised? It's what their great hero Mohammed did and sanctioned.