What the Fuck is Going On with Perceptions of Racism by the Left These Days?

[Jacob]

And if they are are?  Does that change the way you think of them?

I was not responding on the substance of your proposition that transgendered people are delusional. I merely wanted to confirm that that is what you are proposing.

It sounds like you are, and that you really want to have an argument about the validity of that proposition.

Like I said, I'm not interested in having that argument with you.

[jimmy olsen]

It makes you want to punch him in the face, right?  Who writes like that?

Smarmy rich kids who've done little so far, but who nonetheless expect people to pay rapt attention to their pronouncements.

You know... people who were raised to believe that their insights are profound and their expressions brilliant and have not, as of yet, had any significant experiences to counter that belief.

... I think there may be a more concise way to express that concept, but you get the picture.

This may have come up in the next few pages, but isn't he making a joke? I mean, if you read Ide's film blog he writes just like that.

[Ideologue]

One reason there may be a need is the fact that being transgendered is a condition that requires extensive medical treatment to cure.  I would guess that it would not be ethical to treat a person with such an invasive therapy if they didn't truly suffer from the condition that warrants it.

Are you speaking of gender reassignment surgery, hormone therapy, etc? Because I don't believe that's considered "a cure". In fact, using that term sounds similar to how "a cure for homosexuality" would sound.

I dunno.  I've never seen the terminology used--and you highlight the reason it ain't--but honestly I think it works.  Transsexuality isn't a disease, but I see no reason not to consider gender dysphoria as such (it's already sort of explicit in the name).

As I understand it, it's a fairly lengthy process to embark on gender reassignment surgery etc, involving a whole bunch of psychological assessments and therapy before any physical or pharmaceutical steps are taken.

I believe you are correct.  However, they're getting far more aggressive about diagnosing it early, which is great, because while something like 80% of cases self-resolve and don't involve what I guess you'd call "true" transsexualism, if you wait and permit the subject to undergo puberty, it's a far more physically complicated process to make the change, and generally a less successful one in terms of passing, attractiveness, and the general psychosocial health associated with that.

(This recapitulates something I said a long time ago, and is what I feel could possibly have hurt Buddha's feelings, since as we all know she made the leap far later in life--though that certainly wasn't my intent. )

[Ideologue]

It makes you want to punch him in the face, right?  Who writes like that?

Smarmy rich kids who've done little so far, but who nonetheless expect people to pay rapt attention to their pronouncements.

You know... people who were raised to believe that their insights are profound and their expressions brilliant and have not, as of yet, had any significant experiences to counter that belief.

... I think there may be a more concise way to express that concept, but you get the picture.

This may have come up in the next few pages, but isn't he making a joke? I mean, if you read Ide's film blog he writes just like that.

I DO NOT.

[DGuller]

Are you speaking of gender reassignment surgery, hormone therapy, etc?

Of course I am.

Because I don't believe that's considered "a cure". In fact, using that term sounds similar to how "a cure for homosexuality" would sound.

Meh.  You have a problem:  you have a body of the opposite gender.  You have a procedure to convert that body to one of your own gender.  What the fuck am I supposed to call it, a palliative treatment?

[Ideologue]

I defy you to find an instance where I use a pompous foreign term unironically instead of a more populist English one if the English one works.

Or to find such a clumsy non sequitur of a simile.

[Jacob]

Meh.  You have a problem:  you have a body of the opposite gender.  You have a procedure to convert that body to one of your own gender.  What the fuck am I supposed to call it, a palliative treatment?

I get what you mean now

[dps]

Are you speaking of gender reassignment surgery, hormone therapy, etc?

Of course I am.

Because I don't believe that's considered "a cure". In fact, using that term sounds similar to how "a cure for homosexuality" would sound.

Meh.  You have a problem:  you have a body of the opposite gender.  You have a procedure to convert that body to one of your own gender.  What the fuck am I supposed to call it, a palliative treatment?

Apparantly, Raz would call it feeding their delusion.

The troubling part is that I don't think any of us can be certain that he's wrong.

[Razgovory]

And if they are are?  Does that change the way you think of them?

I was not responding on the substance of your proposition that transgendered people are delusional. I merely wanted to confirm that that is what you are proposing.

It sounds like you are, and that you really want to have an argument about the validity of that proposition.

Like I said, I'm not interested in having that argument with you.

If you wish.  I suppose I am already damned.

[garbon]

Meh.  You have a problem:  you have a body of the opposite gender.  You have a procedure to convert that body to one of your own gender.  What the fuck am I supposed to call it, a palliative treatment?

I get what you mean now

Yeah which I think then addresses CC's original statement that there is a "problem" being addressed - though the problem isn't the sort of one that Raz is suggesting.

[crazy canuck]

How would you, distinguish between a person who is transgendered and someone who simply has a delusion they are of a different gender?

I think the premise of this question is flawed.  Why would there be any need to make such a judgment unless of course one started from the proposition that there is something wrong with being transgendered.

Because people are treated differently if they are delusional.  If someone were tell you that he was the Son of God, it's going to elicit laughter and pity.  If a man were tell you he was a women a lot of people are going to accept that and even call them brave for coming out for who they really are.

Correct.  The first person is delusional.  The second person is not.

Why would you make this assumption?

Because there is no God

[crazy canuck]

Meh.  You have a problem:  you have a body of the opposite gender.  You have a procedure to convert that body to one of your own gender.  What the fuck am I supposed to call it, a palliative treatment?

I get what you mean now

Yeah which I think then addresses CC's original statement that there is a "problem" being addressed - though the problem isn't the sort of one that Raz is suggesting.

The question there is not whether they are delusional.  The question is whether they are certain.  Those are two very different things.

[Valmy]

Because there is no God

Whew glad that is settled.  I have to say I am not entirely comfortable with the militant atheistic implications of declaring all religious people delusional.  Besides when I say I am the Son of God I mean it symbolically.

[Razgovory]

Because there is no God

Ah. Dogma.  I've noticed that is running theme here.

[Malthus]

Are you speaking of gender reassignment surgery, hormone therapy, etc?

Of course I am.

Because I don't believe that's considered "a cure". In fact, using that term sounds similar to how "a cure for homosexuality" would sound.

Meh.  You have a problem:  you have a body of the opposite gender.  You have a procedure to convert that body to one of your own gender.  What the fuck am I supposed to call it, a palliative treatment?

Apparantly, Raz would call it feeding their delusion.

The troubling part is that I don't think any of us can be certain that he's wrong.

Let's assume for the sake of argument Raz is right and that such people are delusional.

What difference does it make? Either they are suffering from a genuine condition, or they are suffering from a delusion. As far as I know, there is no evidence that this "delusion" can be cured by any therapy we know of (or at least I have never heard of any). In either case, the only "cure" we currently have is to physically change their gender.

Assuming that is the case, I see no real difference between calling it a "delusion" and calling it a "condition".