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Someone Explain Spanish to Me

Started by Queequeg, April 30, 2014, 11:29:10 AM

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Queequeg

So I'm reading 2666 (TBH simultaneously listening to and reading) by Roberto Bolano, and I'm starting to wonder just how different Spanish is from country to country or region of Spain to region of Spain. 

Amalfitano, one of the protagonists, is left dumbfounded by a Mexican word (something like chilaquiles, only not, cause that's an awesome Mexican breakfast food that I fucking love).  I've heard that Mexican Spanish is radically different from that of the mainland, but how different is it from Chile or Argentina?  Is there a New World Spanish and an Old World Spanish, or a Pacific Coast South America Spanish and a Caribbean Spanish and a Central-North American Spanish, or does it differ from country to country? 

Can people switch registers, so that a Mexican can sound more official and European? 
Quote from: PDH on April 25, 2009, 05:58:55 PM
"Dysthymia?  Did they get some student from the University of Chicago with a hard-on for ancient Bactrian cities to name this?  I feel cheated."

Barrister

I don't know spanish, but I have worked with spanish interpreters.

WHat's been explained to me is that the accent and language caries country to country.  Mexican spanish is reasonably different from Argentine spanish.  And from languish itself I've heard that old world spanish is quite a bit more different.
Posts here are my own private opinions.  I do not speak for my employer.

The Larch

There are big differences amongst Latin American Spanish. Broadly speaking you have Mexican-Central American, Caribbean (which includes Venezuela and Colombia), Andean (Ecuador, Perú, Chile & Bolivia) and Rioplatense (Argentina + Uruguay).

Queequeg

I've heard Rioplateense has a lot of Italian influences, as do some of the Central American dialects.

Does Chile have a lot of Basque influence? 
Quote from: PDH on April 25, 2009, 05:58:55 PM
"Dysthymia?  Did they get some student from the University of Chicago with a hard-on for ancient Bactrian cities to name this?  I feel cheated."

The Larch

Quote from: Queequeg on April 30, 2014, 11:36:05 AM
I've heard Rioplateense has a lot of Italian influences, as do some of the Central American dialects.

Does Chile have a lot of Basque influence?

Rioplatense is the bastard child of Spanish and Italian, that's true. The Italian influence is more on the cadence and pronunciation than in grammar or vocabulary, though.

Queequeg

Actually it would be neat to look at what European dialects influenced the different parts of the ex-Colonies.  I'd guess Extremaduran and Andalusian off of the ties to Seville but it could be anything.   
Quote from: PDH on April 25, 2009, 05:58:55 PM
"Dysthymia?  Did they get some student from the University of Chicago with a hard-on for ancient Bactrian cities to name this?  I feel cheated."

Valmy

Quote from: Queequeg on April 30, 2014, 11:36:05 AM
Does Chile have a lot of Basque influence? 

Why would Chile have Basque influence?
Quote"This is a Russian warship. I propose you lay down arms and surrender to avoid bloodshed & unnecessary victims. Otherwise, you'll be bombed."

Zmiinyi defenders: "Russian warship, go fuck yourself."

Queequeg

Quote from: The Larch on April 30, 2014, 11:38:24 AM
Quote from: Queequeg on April 30, 2014, 11:36:05 AM
I've heard Rioplateense has a lot of Italian influences, as do some of the Central American dialects.

Does Chile have a lot of Basque influence?

Rioplatense is the bastard child of Spanish and Italian, that's true. The Italian influence is more on the cadence and pronunciation than in grammar or vocabulary, though.
Aren't like half of the Italian dialects the bastard child of Greek, Spanish and "Italian" anyway? 
Quote from: PDH on April 25, 2009, 05:58:55 PM
"Dysthymia?  Did they get some student from the University of Chicago with a hard-on for ancient Bactrian cities to name this?  I feel cheated."

Queequeg

Quote from: Valmy on April 30, 2014, 11:39:33 AM
Quote from: Queequeg on April 30, 2014, 11:36:05 AM
Does Chile have a lot of Basque influence? 

Why would Chile have Basque influence?
A lot of Basque settlers.  Basques were disproportionately involved in navigation, mining and fishing, and Chile was great for that. 
Quote from: PDH on April 25, 2009, 05:58:55 PM
"Dysthymia?  Did they get some student from the University of Chicago with a hard-on for ancient Bactrian cities to name this?  I feel cheated."

The Larch

#9
Quote from: Queequeg on April 30, 2014, 11:38:52 AM
Actually it would be neat to look at what European dialects influenced the different parts of the ex-Colonies.  I'd guess Extremaduran and Andalusian off of the ties to Seville but it could be anything.

I doubt there are many connections, my guess is that, where there were sizeable native populations, like Mexico and Perú, their influence in the Spanish spoken there would be greater that any brand of Spanish the settlers may have brought.

Edit: Actually, the only region of Spain whose accent is somehow similar to an American equivalent would be the Canaries, whose accent has slightly Caribbean overtones. A Venezuelan or Dominican sounds somehow similar to a Canarian.

derspiess

I can only speak from a gringo/yanqui perspective, but it seems that there can be a lot of variation in local dialects in terms of vocabulary & slang.  My working theory is that just about any innocuous word in one Spanish-speaking country means something dirty in another.

Pretty much all Spanish instruction I had was in what is spoken throughout most of the mother country.  The Mexican variations were not a shock, save for a few local terms (cacahuete?  wtf).  Argentine Spanish was a bit of a shock.  It felt like a distinct language.

There is a lot of familiarization with other dialects thanks to TV, movies, music, etc. but there are still occasional breakdowns in communication.  My wife has friends from all over Latin America and particularly when speaking with Mexicans they sometimes have to revert to English if they get stuck.
"If you can play a guitar and harmonica at the same time, like Bob Dylan or Neil Young, you're a genius. But make that extra bit of effort and strap some cymbals to your knees, suddenly people want to get the hell away from you."  --Rich Hall

Sheilbh

Also, obviously, different areas have different slang.
Let's bomb Russia!

Sheilbh

Quote from: The Larch on April 30, 2014, 11:44:31 AM
I doubt there are many connections, my guess is that, where there were sizeable native populations, like Mexico and Perú, their influence in the Spanish spoken there would be greater that any brand of Spanish the settlers may have brought.
Yeah and subsequent cultural. For example the influx of Italians to Uruguay and Paraguay and, I imagine, there's some impact on Mexican Spanish from the US.
Let's bomb Russia!

Valmy

Quote from: Queequeg on April 30, 2014, 11:40:28 AM
A lot of Basque settlers.  Basques were disproportionately involved in navigation, mining and fishing, and Chile was great for that. 

According to Wiki Chilean Spanish is most similar to the Andalusian dialect.  You are right about the Basque thing but it does not seem to have influenced the language much.
Quote"This is a Russian warship. I propose you lay down arms and surrender to avoid bloodshed & unnecessary victims. Otherwise, you'll be bombed."

Zmiinyi defenders: "Russian warship, go fuck yourself."

The Larch

A funny thing about Latin American Spanish in comparison with Spain's Spanish is that it is usually much more polite and soft spoken. One thing many Latin American inmigrants mention when they arrive to Spain is how foul mouthed everyone is, which is quite a shock to them.  :lol: