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Donald Sterling and Racism

Started by alfred russel, April 27, 2014, 08:49:02 PM

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Valmy

I just cannot believe he would be ok with his mistress recording all their conversations.  Because of the inherent trustworthiness of mistresses not to use that against you?  Senile old fool.
Quote"This is a Russian warship. I propose you lay down arms and surrender to avoid bloodshed & unnecessary victims. Otherwise, you'll be bombed."

Zmiinyi defenders: "Russian warship, go fuck yourself."

grumbler

Quote from: derspiess on April 30, 2014, 11:19:12 AM
Quote from: grumbler on April 30, 2014, 11:17:37 AM
Quote from: derspiess on April 30, 2014, 10:06:04 AM
Quote from: jimmy olsen on April 30, 2014, 10:04:50 AM
Quote from: derspiess on April 30, 2014, 10:03:18 AM
So are we going to get an all-black league or have those plans been shelved?
:rolleyes:

Hey, take it up with Larry Johnson, not me.
:huh:  Shouldn't you be the one taking it up with Larry Johnson?  You two are the only people who seem to want one.

Did I say I wanted one, grumblies?
Did I say you said you wanted one, Spiesster?  Larry Johnson didn't say he wanted one, either.
QuoteYou two are the only people who seem to want one.
I'd say the seeming was about equal in your two cases.
The future is all around us, waiting, in moments of transition, to be born in moments of revelation. No one knows the shape of that future or where it will take us. We know only that it is always born in pain.   -G'Kar

Bayraktar!

sbr

Quote from: Malthus on April 30, 2014, 01:27:33 PM
Quote from: crazy canuck on April 30, 2014, 11:53:57 AM
Quote from: Barrister on April 30, 2014, 11:44:32 AM
I was a little bit surprised Silver was going to try and force Sterling to sell.  It gives Sterling no reason not to sue.

:huh:

Why would Sterling want to keep a team that had no fans in the stands, sponsors or players - because that is exactly what would happen if he tried to keep the team.

If he sells now he will get a tidy ROE.  He has plenty of movitivation to sell and not sue.

Sell, *then* sue.  :) Allege that the team was worth more, but for the (alleged) illegal forced sale. No dount the other side will argue that it wasn't, and that in fact selling was the best financial option ...

When this first broke on Saturday talking heads were saying the Clippers were worth upwards of $750 million.  I heard yesterday that the potential bidding war could drive the price well over a billion.  Losing value on the forced sale would be pretty tough if any of that is remotely true.

Barrister

Quote from: Malthus on April 30, 2014, 01:34:29 PM
How is being a giant racist asshole in a private (though taped) conversation with his gold-digging mistress "conducting business" in an "unethical" manner? Naturally I haven't seen the agreement, but the obvious interpretation of a contract like that is that it refers to the actual conduct of business. It's a big streatch to argue that, because his mistress is a gold-digger, his relationship with her is the conduct of "business", though no doubt such an argument would raise smiles in the court ...  :D

If this was just about the contents of the message I would be up in arms.

But it isn't.  What happenedis it immediately brought attention to material that was previously published, but perhaps not well known, about the guy and his business practices.

http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/news/story?id=4187729

Is a feature-length story about the guy in 2009.  Very little of it is flattering.
Posts here are my own private opinions.  I do not speak for my employer.

Barrister

Quote from: crazy canuck on April 30, 2014, 01:35:49 PM
Quote from: Malthus on April 30, 2014, 01:27:33 PM
Quote from: crazy canuck on April 30, 2014, 11:53:57 AM
Quote from: Barrister on April 30, 2014, 11:44:32 AM
I was a little bit surprised Silver was going to try and force Sterling to sell.  It gives Sterling no reason not to sue.

:huh:

Why would Sterling want to keep a team that had no fans in the stands, sponsors or players - because that is exactly what would happen if he tried to keep the team.

If he sells now he will get a tidy ROE.  He has plenty of movitivation to sell and not sue.

Sell, *then* sue.  :) Allege that the team was worth more, but for the (alleged) illegal forced sale. No dount the other side will argue that it wasn't, and that in fact selling was the best financial option ...


Yes, that is something that might happen.  I just dont see the argument BB is making that he loses nothing by attempting to hang onto the team.

Sterling is already worth a billion dollars apart from the Clippers.  The prestige and influence of being an NBA owner is much more important to the guy than even a couple hundred million dollars (and even then I'm not sure why launching a lawsuit against the NBA would decrease the value of the team).
Posts here are my own private opinions.  I do not speak for my employer.

alfred russel

Quote from: Malthus on April 30, 2014, 01:34:29 PM
How is being a giant racist asshole in a private (though taped) conversation with his gold-digging mistress "conducting business" in an "unethical" manner? Naturally I haven't seen the agreement, but the obvious interpretation of a contract like that is that it refers to the actual conduct of business. It's a big streatch to argue that, because his mistress is a gold-digger, his relationship with her is the conduct of "business", though no doubt such an argument would raise smiles in the court ...  :D

I can see the NBA looking at it like, "Maybe the legal case of us forcing him to sell the team is questionable. But if we make it maximally unpleasant for him to keep ownership, he might decide it isn't worth it, and if he goes through the courts and keeps the team, then at least we can say, "this isn't our choice" and no one can reasonably say we are tolerating him out of anything other than legal necessity.
They who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety.

There's a fine line between salvation and drinking poison in the jungle.

I'm embarrassed. I've been making the mistake of associating with you. It won't happen again. :)
-garbon, February 23, 2014

derspiess

Quote from: grumbler on April 30, 2014, 02:26:51 PM
Did I say you said you wanted one, Spiesster?  Larry Johnson didn't say he wanted one, either.

:yeahright:  I prefer "Spiessius".
"If you can play a guitar and harmonica at the same time, like Bob Dylan or Neil Young, you're a genius. But make that extra bit of effort and strap some cymbals to your knees, suddenly people want to get the hell away from you."  --Rich Hall

Savonarola

Mitch Albom's (from the Detroit Free Press) Commentary

QuoteMitch Albom: NBA's punishment fits Donald Sterling's crime, but why did it get to this?
Commish makes effort to erase embarrassment

"We stand together in condemning Mr. Sterling's views. They simply have no place in the NBA."

Adam Silver, NBA commissioner

Donald Sterling allegedly said black people smell and Mexicans only drink and smoke, and Asian women know how to provide sex the right way. You could have read a magazine five years ago that made these claims.

You could have studied legal documents nine years ago charging Sterling with refusing to rent to black tenants.

You could have Googled accusations that Sterling told his Clippers GM, Elgin Baylor, to find "poor black boys from the South" to play for "a white head coach," or that he once ordered the eviction of an elderly, legally blind woman, referring to her as "one of those black people that stink."

But with all that, plus a Department of Justice investigation, lawsuits for sexual harassment and sitting courtside next to a mistress despite a public marriage, Sterling and his money were embraced by the NBA for more than 30 years. He was given a lifetime achievement award from the NAACP (and was about to get another). Dallas owner Mark Cuban once told ESPN The Magazine, "I like Donald, he plays by his own rules."

Then those infamous tapes were leaked Saturday morning.

And suddenly, everyone was calling for Sterling's head. Cuban blasted him. Other owners acted as if, shockingly, their oldest member had just pulled on an ugly mask.

Really? Now you get religion?

Calling Sterling racist is easy. That's why so many pundits have done it. Deciding how to punish him is much, much harder. Give Adam Silver credit: The NBA commissioner made a tough, gutsy call that, under the circumstances, feels and looks like the right thing.

He banned Sterling for life, fined him the maximum of $2.5 million, and will try, through an owners vote, to force him to sell the team.

"The league is bigger than any one owner, any one coach, any one player," Silver said. It is the kind of thing a firm leader says. But to be honest, the new commissioner had little choice. Sterling's recorded comments about not wanting his mistress to be seen with black people at games were not just abhorrent and backward, they were bad for business. Sponsors pulled out. Players threatened to sit. If Silver let Sterling hang around — even in a peripheral way — how long before that cancer spread to the league itself?

So he lanced Sterling like a boil and he did it quickly — mostly because while the NBA, under then-commissioner David Stern, did nothing about this pig of an owner for decades, Sterling's allegedly angry mistress gave the league something impossible to ignore.

An audiotape.

And in today's world, that's the guillotine.

It spread like wildfire, so wild and loud that it drowned out any question of the ethics of making such a tape, selling such a tape or distributing such a tape.

Never mind all that. Silver, only three months on the job, had a grenade in his hands; he could hold it or throw it. And he threw it straight and true. It exploded into the harshest punishment he could level against an owner, and trust me, he studied the NBA's "constitution" (yes, they have one) to make sure no one, especially the players, could insist he do more.

Forcing an owner to sell the franchise is tough stuff, as strong as it gets. Even Marge Schott didn't get that, and she praised Hitler, slammed gays and called two of her players her "million-dollar" N-words.

But for those who say: "How can they force an owner to sell his team? It's not fair! What about the First Amendment?" just remember. The NBA is not a typical business. It's an exclusive club. They can vote owners in — and they can vote them out.

"I really think today was a big day for the NBA," veteran player Chauncey Billups told me. "I think what Adam Silver did today is not only gonna start the healing for what happened ... but this could leapfrog us into a greater day in the NBA."

He could be right. With praise coming in from within and outside the league, it feels as if the NBA is actually more united today than it was before this all happened.

But remember, we have not heard from Sterling's camp. His lawyers are no doubt scrambling, while advising him to lay low until the heat dies down. I doubt he will take this lying down, and even if he is forced to sell, he will reap hundreds of millions, and nobody will be happy about that. When asked what Sterling had to say about this, Silver said: "He has not expressed to me directly any other views."

I am glad we are not hearing from Sterling. But as a famous British statesman once noted, "you have not converted a man because you have silenced him." If anyone believes this billionaire, with his awful track record, is today lamenting his racism — as opposed to lamenting his choice in mistresses — you're crazy.

And if anyone believes that Sterling is the only business owner to say racist things about the people he employs, you don't know business or owners.

And if every business owner who ever made a prejudiced remark was forced to sell his or her business — bosses of every creed and color — there wouldn't be enough people left to buy them.

Adam Silver did not convert racism because he silenced its practitioner.

But it's a step.

Sports not a haven
What's so awful about Sterling's comments is that they reinforced an image this country has worked hard to erase: a rich white man treating black workers like trash. True, it's not quite slavery when you are doling out $73 million a year in payroll. But nobody thinks about money here. It is the stereotype of a white bigot looking down on the very people making him rich. It is disgusting and ultimately depressing. Because every time we feel like we're making progress in this difficult dance of diversity, a guy like Sterling kicks us back a couple of decades.

But I have been surprised to read pundits saying this Sterling incident somehow proved that sports is not a haven from racism. Whoever thought it was?

From Mike Tyson yelling "You punk white boy!" to John Rocker insulting foreigners to Sergio Garcia saying he'd serve "fried chicken" to Tiger Woods to Riley Cooper yelling a racial slur at a concert, to Hank Aaron to the Texas Western basketball team to Jackie Robinson, since when has sports been a haven? Sports is part of a world in which race is an issue. So on occasion, it will be an issue in sports, too. But remember: Every white person doesn't feel like Sterling, and every black person doesn't feel like Chris Culliver of the San Francisco 49ers who made anti-gay comments at the Super Bowl.

Sterling has long been the worst kind of example. The NBA should have crashed on him much earlier. But what his past transgressions didn't have was Internet access. Audio recordings. And the power of the media to broadcast it everywhere.

Let's face it. We live in a world where the disgraced walk side by side with the despicable, and the only difference is which one had the misfortune of a tape recorder, video camera or cell phone within earshot. That, too, will be a lesson of this incident. Read what Kareem Abdul-Jabbar said in TIME magazine this week:

"So, if we're all going to be outraged, let's be outraged that we weren't more outraged when (Sterling's) racism was first evident. Let's be outraged that private conversations between people in an intimate relationship are recorded and publicly played. Let's be outraged that whoever did the betraying will probably get a book deal, a sitcom, trade recipes with Hoda and Kathie Lee, and soon appear on 'Celebrity Apprentice' and 'Dancing with the Stars.' "

Let me add that if this woman comes forward to do a "tell-all" interview, we in the media should refuse her. She's no saint. She took Sterling's gifts and money until she couldn't anymore.

Sadly, I doubt my business will listen. We chase these stories, fuel them, and in our own way make money off them, and there's a hypocrisy that deserves comment.

But for now, this is as good an ending as the league could have hoped for. The NBA erased a current embarrassment. It didn't erase a past one. What it means for the future, only the future knows.

I look forward to the best selling tell all "Sterling Digger: My life as a rich man's mistress and then as a media sensation."
In Italy, for thirty years under the Borgias, they had warfare, terror, murder and bloodshed, but they produced Michelangelo, Leonardo da Vinci and the Renaissance. In Switzerland, they had brotherly love, they had five hundred years of democracy and peace—and what did that produce? The cuckoo clock

CountDeMoney

Quote from: Savonarola on April 30, 2014, 03:14:56 PM
I look forward to the best selling tell all "Sterling Digger: My life as a rich man's mistress and then as a media sensation."

Apparently she feels bad that the tape got out.  Go fig.

Guy gets sued by the US Department of Justice for bona fide racial discrimination against blacks:  NBA does nothing. 
Guy gets taped in his own home telling his mistress he doesn't want her showing him up in front of his friends with black dudes and rubbing it in his face while he's financially supporting her:  booted out of the NBA forever, and going to lose his team.

The NBA's known he's been a useless racist asshole for decades, and did nothing.  Years of blind eye underreaction, meet overreaction.

Hell, Marge Schott and George Steinbrenner did a hell of a lot worse racially--and those instances were directly team-related. 

Admiral Yi

CNN showed some footage of her walking around with a bizarre visor-face mask thing, like a riot cop's visor.

jimmy olsen

Quote from: Barrister on April 30, 2014, 11:44:32 AM
Quote from: alfred russel on April 30, 2014, 11:39:37 AM
Quote from: The Larch on April 30, 2014, 11:00:06 AM

It will depend on a vote by the owners now, if 3/4 are ok, he'll be kicked out and forced to sell.

Supposedly the league constitution has that clause, but the use of it is limited to whether the team is in financial trouble or if there is game fixing / gambling.

On the radio they were saying he might be able to sue to block this and still keep the team. I'm not sure why he would want to though. He is going to be persona non grata, and no one will want to play or coach for him.

I was a little bit surprised Silver was going to try and force Sterling to sell.  It gives Sterling no reason not to sue.
The Clippers are in L.A. and are finally doing well. Even if this scandal hadn't exploded it's in the League interest to sell the team at this point in time to someone who could keep them relevant in the long term.
It is far better for the truth to tear my flesh to pieces, then for my soul to wander through darkness in eternal damnation.

Jet: So what kind of woman is she? What's Julia like?
Faye: Ordinary. The kind of beautiful, dangerous ordinary that you just can't leave alone.
Jet: I see.
Faye: Like an angel from the underworld. Or a devil from Paradise.
--------------------------------------------
1 Karma Chameleon point

derspiess

Quote from: CountDeMoney on April 30, 2014, 07:30:40 PM
The NBA's known he's been a useless racist asshole for decades, and did nothing.  Years of blind eye underreaction, meet overreaction.

Yeah, pretty much.

QuoteHell, Marge Schott and George Steinbrenner did a hell of a lot worse racially--and those instances were directly team-related. 

Both of them delivered WS titles.
"If you can play a guitar and harmonica at the same time, like Bob Dylan or Neil Young, you're a genius. But make that extra bit of effort and strap some cymbals to your knees, suddenly people want to get the hell away from you."  --Rich Hall

Caliga

I miss Marge Schott. :(

I also miss Billy West's Marge Schott bits. :)
0 Ed Anger Disapproval Points

sbr

Most  of the other evidence of him being a bigot were lawsuits that were settled out of court.  This is the first real opportunity the NBA had to drop the hammer and they did it.

Also Stern was a pussy.  There's a new sheriff in town.

derspiess

Also I think he showed that it at least buys you some time if you write checks to the right people or organizations.  Maybe even a couple NAACP awards.
"If you can play a guitar and harmonica at the same time, like Bob Dylan or Neil Young, you're a genius. But make that extra bit of effort and strap some cymbals to your knees, suddenly people want to get the hell away from you."  --Rich Hall