Mirror uses stock image of American child for front page UK foodbanks story

[Valmy]

Yes, it's exactly like that.

Well what did they blow their thousand dollars on?  Bah.

[Norgy]

Yes, it's exactly like that.

Well what did they blow their thousand dollars on?  Bah.

A Big Mac with extra fries.

[The Brain]

They didn't credit a stock photo? BFD.

[Valmy]

A Big Mac with extra fries.

European prices never cease to amaze me.

[Valmy]

They didn't credit a stock photo? BFD.

The point is the photo is not a Blighty stock photo but of a God Damn Foreigner.

[Sheilbh]

Are food banks an inferior form of charity to welfare?

Welfare isn't charity. Part of the reason we established a welfare state was to remove the inefficiency and humiliation of charity.

[derspiess]

Are food banks an inferior form of charity to welfare?

Welfare isn't charity. Part of the reason we established a welfare state was to remove the inefficiency and humiliation of charity.

...and replace it with the inefficiency and humiliation* of welfare


*well they ought to feel humiliated

[The Brain]

Btw when you yell at poor people, is that inefficient?

[derspiess]

Btw when you yell at poor people, is that inefficient?

No because I'm usually on my way somewhere when I'm doing it.  I multitask.

[Maximus]

Welfare isn't charity. Part of the reason we established a welfare state was to remove the inefficiency and humiliation of charity.

I see a distinction without a difference.

TBH I really dislike this dichotomy. You see it in the opposite direction here a lot, like private charity is somehow morally superior to public, or vice versa. You have an organization formed by the citizenry to fulfill certain purposes including helping the poor. Why does it matter whether it is a government or not? If it is inefficient or humiliating that is a matter of administration.

[derspiess]

The Freestore Foodbank around here does a pretty good job of getting food to poor people.  We have food drives in our office and they're fun to participate in.  Gives me a warmer feeling than paying taxes.

[Razgovory]

Are food banks an inferior form of charity to welfare?

Welfare isn't charity. Part of the reason we established a welfare state was to remove the inefficiency and humiliation of charity.

...and replace it with the inefficiency and humiliation* of welfare


*well they ought to feel humiliated

It does, but that doesn't really help getting them jobs again.  In fact, it's counter productive.  People who are humiliated daily become depressed and are less likely to find work.

[Sheilbh]

I see a distinction without a difference.

Well in terms of inefficiency the most popular charities in this country (and donations are about 0.7% of GDP) are animals, kids and cancer, in that order. That's great, but actually lots of the most needy don't fall into those three categories. Charity is fine as a supplement in some way, but it'll always be dependant on the desires of donee rather than where help is actually needed. The sad truth is a donkey sanctuary will always get far more money than most people-charities.

Also it's always insufficient. Even the most well-intentioned liberal philanthropists, like a Rowntree or a Toynbee, can do no more than put a sticking plaster on poverty. Personally I'd also add that I have cut back on a lot of charities I used to donate to, including Oxfam and the RSPCA, because they seem to be getting a lot more political and about 'campaigns' and less about actually doing things. I'm a lot more mistrustful of charities than I was and I know other people in my family feel the same. That's a more modern problem perhaps, but it's there.

As to the other issue, I'd try and reclaim 'entitlement' as a good word. We are entitled to welfare because we have paid into the system or because of something in our circumstances. As a society we have decided that if you are made redundant, are unable to work or are old that we will look after you and you won't need to rely on the whims of noblesse oblige and the private generosity of a few. Maybe charity never had that connotation in the US or Canada, but here a part of setting up the welfare state was about dignity. That we will educate our young, care for our sick and our elderly, look after those out of work and that those people will have dignity and not have to go, as they did in the 30s, to charities and the well-to-do to meet their basic needs.

More importantly in this case as I say we've never really had food banks before and the ones we have you need to be referred to by a GP or the Citizens Advice Bureau. This is novel and I think it's a disgrace that we're back at this. It's also striking that there's lots of reports that the Chancellor (who's hardly a red) is very worried about the competence of the ministers at the DWP.

[derspiess]

It does, but that doesn't really help getting them jobs again.  In fact, it's counter productive.  People who are humiliated daily become depressed and are less likely to find work.

It would provide motivation for me to find a job.  I'd dig ditches to avoid being on welfare.

[Valmy]

Where are you going to get this fancy ditch digging job?  They have machines that do that now.