Mirror uses stock image of American child for front page UK foodbanks story

[grumbler]

There is arguably a moral component in the acceptance of welfare.

Absolutely, for some people.  But when it is, it is a personal moral component.  If someone says "I'd get a job digging ditches before I took welfare," that a sound moral position.  If someone says "he [or she] should have gotten a job digging ditches rather than accept welfare," that's not a sound moral position, that's a mere judgement.

[Maximus]

When it's welfare there is no moral component. Charity is a good act because someone must make a moral choice to do it. You can't choose to not pay your taxes, so the morality of the act is removed.

There is arguably a moral component in the acceptance of welfare.

Also in collectively deciding what welfare we are going to provide.

[derspiess]

You outta hear the conversations in a gun shop some day.  Modern gun tards make those olden-times welfare queens sound quite rational.

The hell.  Try a gun show if you want to hear some nuttiness.

[Eddie Teach]

/flex right biceps
/flex left biceps

[grumbler]

The hell.  Try a gun show if you want to hear some nuttiness.

To great a cost in lifespan.  I'm only even in gun shops while friends buy ammo or something (and I look at real-life models of the weapons I use in FONV using the Classic Weapons mod), but the people who hang out there are still bitching about birth certificates and "Obamacare."

[derspiess]

To great a cost in lifespan.

I'm not dead yet.  Anyway it's worth the price of admission just to people watch

I'm only even in gun shops while friends buy ammo or something (and I look at real-life models of the weapons I use in FONV using the Classic Weapons mod), but the people who hang out there are still bitching about birth certificates and "Obamacare."

It does vary.  Freakiest I've encountered was one shop in Kentucky I stopped by to see if they had any military surplus type rifles.  They had almost no firearms but plenty of odd black helicopter-type literature.  And there were a few old guys sitting around like they had been there for a few hours.  They got really quiet when I walked in and I ended up spending less than a minute there.

[Iormlund]

When it's welfare there is no moral component. Charity is a good act because someone must make a moral choice to do it. You can't choose to not pay your taxes, so the morality of the act is removed.

There is arguably a moral component in the acceptance of welfare.

Not really. I haven't felt that and I've been unemployed since the summer (and until next Monday). As RH says, I see it as cashing on the insurance I paid for during my working years.

[derspiess]

Not really. I haven't felt that and I've been unemployed since the summer (and until next Monday). As RH says, I see it as cashing on the insurance I paid for during my working years.

I suppose it may depend on how it's structured, but over here at least I don't regard unemployment insurance as welfare-- at least as long as it's not extended indefinitely.

[Razgovory]

Do welfare queens actually wear crowns?  How can you pick them out?

[Sheilbh]

Not really. I haven't felt that and I've been unemployed since the summer (and until next Monday). As RH says, I see it as cashing on the insurance I paid for during my working years.

Same. I don't see any moral element in accepting welfare. If you're in a situation where you can get it then you should. That's what it's there for. There's no more moral element here than using a state school or the NHS even if you could afford private school or health insurance.

[grumbler]

Not really. I haven't felt that and I've been unemployed since the summer (and until next Monday). As RH says, I see it as cashing on the insurance I paid for during my working years.

Same. I don't see any moral element in accepting welfare. If you're in a situation where you can get it then you should. That's what it's there for. There's no more moral element here than using a state school or the NHS even if you could afford private school or health insurance.

So, you are arguing that there could not possibly be a moral argument against accepting welfare, or are you actually agreeing with Yi that "there is arguably a moral component in the acceptance of welfare" (my italics) and just disagreeing with that argument?

[Sheilbh]

I don't think there's a moral argument whatsoever, if you're entitled.

[grumbler]

I don't think there's a moral argument whatsoever, if you're entitled.

No possible moral argument, "if you are entitled."  Why qualify this?  If there is a qualifier, then morality is arguable.

[Razgovory]

You can add a moral argument to pretty much anything.

[Admiral Yi]

I don't think there's a moral argument whatsoever, if you're entitled.

And that is the crux of the Socratic argument.