Who should I vote for. Redux.

[Martinus]

My region had communal elections yesterday too and my city is now ruled by the Greens who got more votes than either Conservatives or Social Democrats. 

Nice.

[Martinus]

Why the hell would UKIP do that well?  Can I assume its a pure protest vote?

Not really.  EU elections have a very low turrnout and generally in this election the Tories are more likely to vote and UKIP voters are similarly quite motivated.  But there's an element of protest votes too, especially given the expenses scandal.

But about a third of the UK want to leave the EU according to the polls.

All the other parties are leaving the hall while Griffin's giving a speech.

I'm curious - why do so many Brits want to leave the EU? I mean, on the face of it, Britain got a great deal on the membership. You guys get a good employment balance (3 millions Brits employed throughout the EU, mostly in highly-paid, highly-qualified position vs. cheap labour from the continent for low-paid jobs), great trade revenues and a significant political influence.

It seems to me Brits are forgetting they are not an empire anymore, but a US vassal state with economy that is probably most wrecked by recession of all EU states. Frankly, I'm disappointed with the UK election results - I thought I'd never live to see the day in which Poles are more optimistic and less likely to vote for extremists than Brits. 

[Syt]

Austrians are also extremely Euro-Skeptic. EU is seen as source of all evil, a corrupt moloch that strives to control the member countries, siphoning their money into ridiculous projects, and generally being bad for Austria. Schengen is a tool of the mafia to import crime into the EU from shady countries like Hungary or Slovakia.

Which is ridiculous, considering how much Austria benefitted from the 2004 expansion; Austrian banks and companies expanded big time into the new member countries, creating jobs and income in Austria, too.

[Martinus]

Austrians are also extremely Euro-Skeptic. EU is seen as source of all evil, a corrupt moloch that strives to control the member countries, siphoning their money into ridiculous projects, and generally being bad for Austria. Schengen is a tool of the mafia to import crime into the EU from shady countries like Hungary or Slovakia.

Which is ridiculous, considering how much Austria benefitted from the 2004 expansion; Austrian banks and companies expanded big time into the new member countries, creating jobs and income in Austria, too.

Austria already had a shot at unifying Europe, and it also ended with Eastern European workers in Germany and Austria, so not exactly see how they can complain.

[Sheilbh]

I'm curious - why do so many Brits want to leave the EU? I mean, on the face of it, Britain got a great deal on the membership. You guys get a good employment balance (3 millions Brits employed throughout the EU, mostly in highly-paid, highly-qualified position vs. cheap labour from the continent for low-paid jobs), great trade revenues and a significant political influence.

Well our mainstream right-wing party is anti-EU.  There's a number of reasons for British anti-Europeanism, I'm not the person to ask because I think they're all irrational.  But no-one ever really puts the positive argument (except the Lib Dems) so Europe is seen as CAP and corruption, an undemocratic mess that imposes laws on Britain and is trying to build a super-state.  Here's some recent polling, by an admittedly biased group but also a very good pollster:

*      People are so annoyed by EU rules that 69% want the British Government to start breaking them and disobeying Brussels. Only 28% of people believe Britain should obey EU rules. A majority of Conservatives (78%), Labour supporters (65%), Liberal Democrats (59%) and Others (70%) support disobedience. The policy has overwhelming support across every social class and region of the UK.
    *      Furthermore, a strong majority believe Britain should refuse to pay any EU fines imposed for breaking those rules - by 60% to 30%. Again, Conservatives (62%), Labour (54%), Liberal Democrats (51%) and Others (69%) are all in support of refusing to pay the fines.
    *      A clear majority are also in favour of Britain unilaterally taking back powers from Brussels if the EU or the other member states refused to give us permission to do so - by 57% to 37%. While Conservatives (63%), Lib Dems (51%) and Others (73%) all think that unilateral action is justified, only Labour's supporters believe we should abide by an EU decision to refuse us the right to renegotiate our relationship - and then only by 49% to 45%.
    *      On the Lisbon Treaty, voters are similarly resolute. 75% of people believe that any decision to give more powers to the EU must always be put to a referendum, while only 23% believe such decisions should be taken by MPs. Support for referenda is in the majority across all parties: Conservative (81%), Labour (69%), Liberal Democrat (68%), Other (80%). In a referendum on the Lisbon Treaty, the Treaty would be rejected by a majority of 62% to 28%. Despite Labour and Liberal Democrat official policy being in favour of the Treaty, their supporters would also be voting against it - by a margin of 50% to 42% in the case of Liberal Democrats and 46% to 43% amongst Labour voters.
    *      Public opposition to the Euro is found to be the strongest since 1995, and the recession has made people more opposed to giving up Sterling. In a referendum, the Euro would be resoundingly rejected by 75% to 23%. Even supporters of the Liberal Democrats, the only party among the main three to openly support joining the Euro, would vote to keep the Pound by 58% to 40%. When asked what impact the recession has had on their views on the Euro, 29% said that it had made them more opposed to joining whilst 14% said it had made them more in favour.
    *      As well as boosting opposition to the Euro, the financial crisis and recession have led the public to conclude that Britain needs a fundamentally different relationship with the EU, including control of our own trade and economic policy. Only 28% of the public believe that Britain would be better off in the economic crisis as a fully integrated EU member with the Euro and the Lisbon Treaty. By contrast, 67% believe the economic crisis demonstrates the need for Britain to take back control of trade and economic policies.

It seems to me Brits are forgetting they are not an empire anymore, but a US vassal state with economy that is probably most wrecked by recession of all EU states. Frankly, I'm disappointed with the UK election results - I thought I'd never live to see the day in which Poles are more optimistic and less likely to vote for extremists than Brits. 

Alas UKIP aren't that extreme anymore, their view on Europe is just to the right of the Tories.  The Tories goal, with this new group, is to create an 'official opposition' to the EU within the European Parliament.

As to the BNP their vote didn't increase by much, though it is incredibly disappointing.  What really happened, especially in the North-West was the Labour vote collapsed

Though I think the publicity they'll now get will kill them off.  I just listened to an interview with Nick Griffin and he accused the BBC of being obsessed with race because there's a black Friar Tuck in the current BBC version of Robin Hood.  God knows what he thinks of the Kevin Costner version.  Robin's got a black and Muslim friend

Also Brits don't view the EU elections as being important.  They are seen as basically irrelevant and very few people vote.  So they're more likely to vote fringe in EU elections than other ones.  For example in the council election results a couple of days ago the BNP only got three councillors and a tiny share of the vote because people think councils have some power.  They see the European Parliament as a place to dump protest votes.

[Zanza]

I wonder how all those people view a possible future of Britain outside the EU. What incentive would the EU have to give a leaving Britain a good deal? They would still have to obey all the rules and would probably still have to pay - just like Norway or Switzerland.

[Tamas]

My region had communal elections yesterday too and my city is now ruled by the Greens who got more votes than either Conservatives or Social Democrats. 

Nice.

Dark Greens FTL

[Zanza]

Dark Greens FTL

The Greens here are tending toward Light Greens as far as I can tell. You'll find some Dark Greens, but usually it's the Light Greens who really call the shots in the party.

[BuddhaRhubarb]

Dumb North Amerikaner question.

I thought Europe banned Nazis? what's with all the odd coloured Orange & Blue Nazis? Oh no here comes Himmler is his Neon Orange SS uniform... Put on your sunglasses. :p

[Syt]

Nazis = right wing populists (at least here in Austria), making anti-foreigner (well, anti-Islam, recently) sentiments their platform and usually not really too hard on former nazi deeds/perps etc. Then again the "normal" conservatives still venerate Dollfuß as one of the party greats.


During the recent elections the blue populists (Haider's former party before he split off with the orange populaists, because the blue ones became too radical for his tastes) had a row with the churches because of their slogan "Abendland in Christenhand" (Occident in Christans' Hands), because so far there has been ethical code of leaving (Christian) religion politically neutral or at least to not use it in election campaigns.


The Freedom Party also fields the Third Speaker of Parliament, Martin Graf. During the EU election campaign he called Ariel Muzicant, head of the Israelite community in Vienna, "Sponsor/Instigator of anti-fascist left wing terrorism". The Jews were not really amused and likened Graf to Goebbels. The leftist parties tried to have Graf removed from the board of speakers of parliament, but this failed because the Conservatives blocked it.


The reasons the Freedom Party is so successful in Austria are easy to spot. Unlike the other major parties (mostly Social Democrats and Conservatives) they speak a simple language everyone understands. And they target concrete fears: unemployment, Islamists, foreigners, crime done by foreigners/Islamists etc.