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Men With Guns Are Also Active Elsewhere.

Started by mongers, April 12, 2014, 09:19:03 PM

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Sheilbh

#120
Quote from: Norgy on April 15, 2014, 04:51:01 PM
Philip Larkin. From Nottingham, if I am not mistaken.
Coventry. But always best associated with Hull.

There's a tragic synopsis of a life.

Edit: And my favourite Larkin detail, his father had a statue of Hitler which he'd bought at a Nuremberg Rally. He kept it on the mantelpiece and when you pressed a button it would do the Nazi salute.
Let's bomb Russia!

Norgy

Quote from: Sheilbh on April 15, 2014, 05:21:27 PM
Quote from: Norgy on April 15, 2014, 04:51:01 PM
Philip Larkin. From Nottingham, if I am not mistaken.
Coventry. But always best associated with Hull.

There's a tragic synopsis of a life.

Edit: And my favourite Larkin detail, his father had a statue of Hitler which he'd bought at a Nuremberg Rally. He kept it on the mantelpiece and when you pressed a button it would do the Nazi salute.

From Coventry to Hull... well, that's almost punishment.
I remember Larkin from my English studies almost 20 years ago now. He, Robert Frost, Poe's "The Raven" and "Bartleby the Scrivener" (by Henry James) sort of stick with me.

Syt

http://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2014/04/cliven-bundy-wants-to-tell-you-all-about-the-negro/361152/

Ther article is basically a big rant about modern conservatives = white supremacists; but that doesn't change the awfulness of this freedom fighter's quote.

QuoteCliven Bundy Wants to Tell You All About 'the Negro'

QuoteRep. Pat Garofalo @PatGarofalo

Let's be honest, 70% of teams in NBA could fold tomorrow + nobody would notice a difference w/ possible exception of increase in streetcrime
12:33 AM - 10 Mar 2014
1,930 Retweets 592 Favorites

A couple days ago Jonathan Chait asserted that modern conservatism is "doomed" because it is "rooted in white supremacy." The first claim may or may not be true, but there's little doubt about the second. Whether it's the Senate minority leader claiming that America should have remained legally segregated, a beloved cultural figure fondly recalling how happy black people were living under lynch law, a presidential candidate calling Barack Obama a "food-stamp president," or a campaign surrogate calling Barack Obama "a subhuman mongrel," the preponderance of evidence shows that modern conservatism just can't quit white supremacy.

This is unsurprising. White supremacy is one of the most dominant forces in the history of American politics. In a democracy, it would be silly to expect it to go unexpressed. Thus anyone with a sense of American history should be equally unsurprised to discover that rugged individualist Cliven Bundy is the bearer of some very interesting theories:

"I want to tell you one more thing I know about the Negro," he said. Mr. Bundy recalled driving past a public-housing project in North Las Vegas, "and in front of that government house the door was usually open and the older people and the kids—and there is always at least a half a dozen people sitting on the porch—they didn't have nothing to do. They didn't have nothing for their kids to do. They didn't have nothing for their young girls to do.

"And because they were basically on government subsidy, so now what do they do?" he asked. "They abort their young children, they put their young men in jail, because they never learned how to pick cotton. And I've often wondered, are they better off as slaves, picking cotton and having a family life and doing things, or are they better off under government subsidy? They didn't get no more freedom. They got less freedom."


Prick a movement built on white supremacy and it bleeds ... white supremacy. That said, I think it's always worth clarifying what we mean when we use words like "slavery" and "freedom" in an American context.

I took a flight to L.A. last night and brought with me Thavolia Glymph's bruising monograph Out of the House of Bondage. Glymph is mostly concerned with the plantation house as a workspace during enslavement, and thus the scene of horrendous violence primarily dished out by "ladies of the house."

In general, a silence surrounds white women's contributions to the basic nature of slavery, its maintenance, and, especially, one of its central tendencies, the maiming and destruction of black life.
The maiming and destruction of black life. This is key. What Glymph is discussing is not merely the theft of labor but the total plunder of the human body. Slavery is torture as a system of governance, corporal destruction taken as the mere cost of doing business.

Here are a few additions, courtesy of Glymph, to your morning reading:

Item: Enslaved woman Mandy Cooper was not quick enough churning milk, and thus her mistress had no butter to serve her party along with the cornbread and biscuits. Cooper's mistress and her two guests—all women—then set upon Moore and "beat me from angah." Moore's mistress grabbed a heavy board. Another friend grabbed a whip.

Item: Enslaved woman Alice Shaw was given the task of fanning flies and clearing the dinner table. When she dropped a dish, her mistress "beat her on her head."

Item: Clara Young did not always respond quickly enough to her mistress's summons. Her mistress lifted her dress and beat her.

Item: Lila Nichols failed to gather enough eggs. She was beaten by her mistress. This same mistress later set upon an enslaved woman whom she suspected of poisoning her, "leaving her back 'in gashes.' She then ordered the slave woman chained until she had recovered sufficiently enough to be sold."

Item: Delia Garlic was responsible for nursing and caring for her mistress' baby. "One day I was playin' wid de baby," she reported. "It hurt its li'l han' an' commenced to cry, an' [my mistress] whirl on me, pick up a hot iron an' run it all down my arm an' han'. It took off de flesh when she done it."

Item: "Slaves was punished by whip and starving," reported freedwoman Harriet Robinson. "Master Sam didn't never whip me but Miss Julia whipped me everyday in the morning. During the war she beat me terrible. She say 'Your master's out fighting and losing blood trying to save you from the Yankees, so you kin get your'n here.'"

The idea that Robinson's master was fighting on behalf of the slaves is both rich and telling. Mostly it shows that Cliven Bundy's theories are not original but inherited via white supremacy.

Enslaved black people were, with some regularity, beat with cowhide whips, tongs, pokers, chairs, and wooden boards. Nails were driven through their palms, pins through their tongues. Eyes were gouged out for the smallest offense.

When people like Cliven Bundy assert the primacy of the past it is important that we do not recount it selectively. American enslavement is the destruction of the black body for profit. That is the past that Cliven Bundy believes "the Negro" to have been better off in. He is, regrettably, not alone.
I am, somehow, less interested in the weight and convolutions of Einstein's brain than in the near certainty that people of equal talent have lived and died in cotton fields and sweatshops.
—Stephen Jay Gould

Proud owner of 42 Zoupa Points.

derspiess

I am not shocked to find out the old coot has some outdated views on race.
"If you can play a guitar and harmonica at the same time, like Bob Dylan or Neil Young, you're a genius. But make that extra bit of effort and strap some cymbals to your knees, suddenly people want to get the hell away from you."  --Rich Hall

Barrister

Yeah, I don't think it's fair to claim Cliven Bundy as a spokesperson for "modern Conservatism".
Posts here are my own private opinions.  I do not speak for my employer.

grumbler

Quote from: Barrister on April 24, 2014, 10:51:07 AM
Yeah, I don't think it's fair to claim Cliven Bundy as a spokesperson for "modern Conservatism".

The article is full of intellectually dishonest claims.  I don't think the author is the slightest bit interested in being fair.
The future is all around us, waiting, in moments of transition, to be born in moments of revelation. No one knows the shape of that future or where it will take us. We know only that it is always born in pain.   -G'Kar

Bayraktar!

Razgovory

Quote from: Barrister on April 24, 2014, 10:51:07 AM
Yeah, I don't think it's fair to claim Cliven Bundy as a spokesperson for "modern Conservatism".

True, but his cause was championed by all sorts from the right.
I've given it serious thought. I must scorn the ways of my family, and seek a Japanese woman to yield me my progeny. He shall live in the lands of the east, and be well tutored in his sacred trust to weave the best traditions of Japan and the Sacred South together, until such time as he (or, indeed his house, which will periodically require infusion of both Southern and Japanese bloodlines of note) can deliver to the South it's independence, either in this world or in space.  -Lettow April of 2011

Raz is right. -MadImmortalMan March of 2017

Barrister

Quote from: Razgovory on April 24, 2014, 02:22:55 PM
Quote from: Barrister on April 24, 2014, 10:51:07 AM
Yeah, I don't think it's fair to claim Cliven Bundy as a spokesperson for "modern Conservatism".

True, but his cause was championed by all sorts from the right.

Rodney King's case was championed by all sorts from the left.  Certainly didn't make Rodney King a spokesperson for liberalism.

And, for the record, as a proud Conservative, I think very little of Bundy's "cause".
Posts here are my own private opinions.  I do not speak for my employer.

celedhring

Quote from: Barrister on April 24, 2014, 10:51:07 AM
Yeah, I don't think it's fair to claim Cliven Bundy as a spokesperson for "modern Conservatism".

Anybody else picturing Al Bundy every time this guy's being discussed?  :blush:

derspiess

Quote from: celedhring on April 24, 2014, 02:35:13 PM
Quote from: Barrister on April 24, 2014, 10:51:07 AM
Yeah, I don't think it's fair to claim Cliven Bundy as a spokesperson for "modern Conservatism".

Anybody else picturing Al Bundy every time this guy's being discussed?  :blush:

I wish.  I pictured Ted Bundy for a while.
"If you can play a guitar and harmonica at the same time, like Bob Dylan or Neil Young, you're a genius. But make that extra bit of effort and strap some cymbals to your knees, suddenly people want to get the hell away from you."  --Rich Hall

Razgovory

Quote from: Barrister on April 24, 2014, 02:27:41 PM
Quote from: Razgovory on April 24, 2014, 02:22:55 PM
Quote from: Barrister on April 24, 2014, 10:51:07 AM
Yeah, I don't think it's fair to claim Cliven Bundy as a spokesperson for "modern Conservatism".

True, but his cause was championed by all sorts from the right.

Rodney King's case was championed by all sorts from the left.  Certainly didn't make Rodney King a spokesperson for liberalism.

And, for the record, as a proud Conservative, I think very little of Bundy's "cause".

I will accept that opposition to police brutality is a cause the left has championed.
I've given it serious thought. I must scorn the ways of my family, and seek a Japanese woman to yield me my progeny. He shall live in the lands of the east, and be well tutored in his sacred trust to weave the best traditions of Japan and the Sacred South together, until such time as he (or, indeed his house, which will periodically require infusion of both Southern and Japanese bloodlines of note) can deliver to the South it's independence, either in this world or in space.  -Lettow April of 2011

Raz is right. -MadImmortalMan March of 2017

derspiess

Accept all you want-- I'll just forget it in a few hours :(
"If you can play a guitar and harmonica at the same time, like Bob Dylan or Neil Young, you're a genius. But make that extra bit of effort and strap some cymbals to your knees, suddenly people want to get the hell away from you."  --Rich Hall

Jacob

Quote from: Barrister on April 24, 2014, 10:51:07 AM
Yeah, I don't think it's fair to claim Cliven Bundy as a spokesperson for "modern Conservatism".

Agreed, though I do think that the people who see Bundy as a spokesperson and cause celebre would identify their cause as "true Conservatism" or some such. That, of course, does not mean it actually is, and I certainly don't think the brand of Conservatism you espouse has much in common with Bundy and his merry band.

That said, whatever Conservative politicians and pundits who made utterances sympathetic to Bundy do contribute to the claims that he represent some form of Conservatism, and one they support in some manner. I expect there'll be fewer of them - the repudiations have already begun - since Bundy starting philosophizing about Negros being better off as slaves in public.

CountDeMoney

Dont worry, Jake, the collective mouthbreathers of Dumbfuckistan Nation will find another "hero", just like Bundy, and George Zimmerman before him, and on and on, never mind the little details.

derspiess

Quote from: CountDeMoney on April 24, 2014, 03:58:33 PM
Dont worry, Jake, the collective mouthbreathers of Dumbfuckistan Nation will find another "hero", just like Bundy, and George Zimmerman before him, and on and on, never mind the little details.

Joe the Plumber is probably rested up for a second go.
"If you can play a guitar and harmonica at the same time, like Bob Dylan or Neil Young, you're a genius. But make that extra bit of effort and strap some cymbals to your knees, suddenly people want to get the hell away from you."  --Rich Hall